Focke Wulf Fw 190 A-3 "10+I" W Nr 403

[Milos Gazdic]

Dear all,

Hope you don't mind me posting all the Fw 190 related questions in last week or so... But I have been absent for such a long time and I have 1000s of questions about my beloved FWs

Anyhow, this small topic is about the Fw 190 that always intrigued me:

Focke Wulf Fw 190 White or Yellow "10+I" W.Nr 403

Production number (0130403) puts it in the batch produced in Focke-Wulf factory, Bremen and Marienburg. Tip of the tails spots "WNr 403" clearly written up.

Only photo of the aircraft known to me is published in Rodeike's book on page 87 and Mr Rodeike is describing it as a machine with STKZ "RC + TC" which is crudely overpainted (as seen in the photo) and belonging to III./JG 26. JG26 is established based on known style "eagle-wing" exhaust pattern.

(same photo is published in the in Osprey's "Fw190 Aces of the western Front" by John Weal on the bottom of the page but author doesn't give any more clues about the machine)

Author dates the photo to July 24, 1942, when pilots accident caused crash landing in Vendeville.

Aircraft was apparently written off on August 24th 1943
On August 24, 1943 this Fw 190 A-3 went in Lfl. Res. 3 lost in Vélizy-Villacoublay in a bombing raid. Maybe someone who has some loss-records could confirm to which unit the aircraft was belonging at least at the end of it's carrier?

By the book it is belonging to 9./JG 26 and is called "Yellow 10+I", I am wondering if it is in fact "White 10+I" of 7./JG 26 instead.

What makes me believe that it's in fact White is the fact that ruder is obviously painted Yellow & it's way too much darker than numerals. Same applies to lower cowling panel.

Two interesting links that I have found of the aircraft are:

1) Mission4Today's skin page where author of the skin "Emel" did both interpretations (White & Yellow) of the machine;

©Emel

2) Wing Palette Profile page - which for me doesn't seem great but confirms once again my fear that the machine could have been White 10 and not Yellow...

© BORA-PRESS 'Focke-Wulf FW.190A'

Questions:
A) Can you help me confirm the unit / colour of the codes?
B) (More important): Do you believe that the fuselage could have been left in natural metal on such an early aircraft? I know it sounds crazy but: it was not 'overpainted with fresh RLM76' since then STKZ would be overpainted too and RLM76 (and I believe tail too) seem to be much darker than the fuselage! Please note that even wing root spots the same look and really looks metalic


NOTE: Hope it's not a problem to post the photo from above mentioned publications in order to make it easier for people to discuss the topics? If it is - please feel free to remove it.

Thank you for any help

Milos

[G.R.Morrison]

“Pechvogel”

Damaged 25% by pilot error on 24.July 1942 at Vendeville, the WNr.5403 was with JGr. Ost when it was once again damaged (20%) in a Bruchlandung 11.Jan. 1943 at Fl.Pl. St. Jean d'Angely due to pilot error, entered the repair shops [Sonderreparaturbbetrieb G.L. (Ago Flzgwerke)] at Auxerre/Cravant 27.Jan. 1943, left 8.August 1943 and was badly-damaged (50%) the next day while being ferried by a pilot of Flzg.Überführ.G. 1, Notlandung at Caussade due to fuel shortage.

There are other examples of 'pale' yellow used for the Kennung of 9./JG 26 machines, Staffelkapitän Kurt Ruppert's WNr.551 "gelbe 1" comes to mind.

GRM

[Milos Gazdic]

Indeed quite unfortunate machine!

And thanks so much GRM! Your database doesn't stop to amaze me!! Wish I was organised type of person like yourself!

Does you database mentions which unit & pilot pricasely this machine was assigned while in JG26 in Vendeville which I believe attached photo above documents...?

I was taking Pale Yellow into account but that would be also quite darker compared to the 10 & I in the photo if the ruder is so dark. At the given photo numerals are identical shade of gray as white on the cross!

Thanks a million for the info!

Regards,
Milos

PS I'm wondering if you by any chance have anything similar for the Go to first new post Focke Wulf Fw 190 A-8 "Red 3+-" “Kornjark" WNr.171641

[G.R.Morrison]

You're welcome. Organized? You have not seen my 'work room' above the garage (every time I look I think, "My poor widow..."). The db has been the work of Jim Perry and myself for thirty years. Many others have contributed to this unfinished puzzle-with-a-million-pieces.

If the pilot had been known, I would have included this in the reply. Usually this sort of detail remained unrecorded as the pilot was not injured / wounded / killed / missing. Sometimes a logbook provides corroboration, but we are never going to know 'everything.'

I try to not make pronouncements on color. Having spent plenty of time in photo darkrooms, it's easy to see that how dark or light a part of an image appears is affected by MANY variables - film type, filters, lenses, temperature, you get the idea.

Good luck in your endeavors, GRM

[D.B. Andrus]

If the rudder is yellow yet renders dark, and the blue sides render close to white, it follows that the film used was probably an orthochromatic type. Therefore, the Kennung could be a medium blue rendered as near white. Of course, that's not taking into account unit color assignments.

Like George I've spent many years in the darkroom, 25+ as a commercial photographer, and the possible variations are daunting.

HTH,

D.B.

[Milos Gazdic]

Hello again,

It's all about the perspective!
When I see you are helping everyone with your databases here & over on Hyperscale... my perception is that you're very organized :)

And I for sure don't want you to see my "work room". I am even ashamed of my own wife...

May I know in which form is DB? Excel file or something even better?

I was afraid that you're not having the full info about the pilot & the Staffel to which it belonged...

Anyhow maybe if we would know for sure which precise colours were used for Staffels of III./JG 26 at the time we could eliminate those that would look dark in the image... (be it White, Black / Red, Brown, Yellow (dark or light...), Blue (dark or light...)... I will try to check in few books I have on hand here in China, but I guess I would have to dig into some JG 26 related books back home when I visit in January / February.

I agree too that the film on which this photo was taken was of Orthochromatic type. But knowing that - based on the suggestion from the paragraph above - we could at least narrow the choices (especially if we would know which of them were using outlined digits and which not).

Please keep in mind that in military service, most of photographers were not often using any filters and similar which will complicate the stories further... Many years ago I compiled few sources where military photographers spoke about these things on AAW forum, which is long gone. Just 2-3 weeks ago, during Shanghai Photo Fair, I spoke with an old gentleman who used to serve in Korean war on a carrier, shooting with Speed Graphic 4x5 (my fav camera of all times)...

Anyhow - would you discard the idea of unpainted, dull aluminium fuselage that early in the war? I have a photo of Fw 190 A-2 or A-3 (probably WNr 207 - at least it's painted on the cowling, sitting in front of the hangar) with Natural Metal lower surfaces & most probably RLM 02 upper surfaces & ailerons in RLM 76 or 65 with only leading edges of the wings' lower surfaces painted with upper colour - quite similar to late war camouflage. I think photo was published in AJ Press or some similar book long time ago... and it was always surprising me that people were never discussing it :)

Finally, just for the sake of tech reference I have checked the grayscale values of the certain spots of W.Nr 403 - which for me just confirm some of my ideas. :)



Good night from Shanghai,
Misko

[Milos Gazdic]

Dear all,
Hope you don't mind me putting one more image here from Jet & Prop magazine article published in 1995 showing this & one more photo of Fw 190 F-8 "Schwarze 3":



Please note that the tones and overall look of the fuselage of Schawarze 3 seem almost identical to the above image of "Weisse 10 + I"

Any more thoughts about this machine?

What about some early Luftwaffe tests of unpainted fighters in their research facilities? I've heard of some Fw 190 that were tested with parts of fuselage unpainted as early as 1943... Anyone with more info?

Also there is a photo of Fw 190 A-2 (with "Weisse 207" painted on the cowling possibly part of WNr.) in one of such facilities showing it's undersurfaces obviously left unpainted... leaving it for the further posts.

Best,
Milos

[Milos Gazdic]

Hello all,

During my recent visit to Serbia I received a book: "Focke Wulf Fw 190 & Ta 152" by Eduardo Soler & Aurelio Giemeno from Accion Press from a friend & I was nicely surprised to notice that Fw 190 A-3 "10+I" has triggered some interest with artists / authors since it's one of the few rare mounts that is proposed in various options because of the non-standard camouflage. Famous Fw 190 A-6/R11 Neptun from 2./JG 300 "Schwartze 8 +" is another of few machines discussed in similar manner by authors.

Unfortunately, "Spanglish" in which the book is written is not really easy to follow (similar probably to my Serbglish) and I wish I had original Spanish edition.

Authors are calling for the same photo source. They are calling also for a large contrast of the fuselage sides compared to RLM 76 area of the cowling/hood, and mention the remains of the codes still being visible on the sides.

They offer three options / variation on the story of the painting of this, for me, amazing looking mount:

i) Suggestion that standardly painted RLM 76 with 74/75 machine had it's wing-roots, tail & fuselage sides Sanded down to bare metal;

ii) Suggestion that this area in fact was a repainted in RLM77 with the remaining of the fuselage/wings undersurfaces staying in RLM 76;

iii) Suggestion that the aircraft was originally painted in RLM 65 and 71/02. Such "old-style" camo was later repainted with RLM76 on the fuselage. Which still leaves the question of clearly NMF wing roots? Also being a mount built by Arado - authors believe that the mount was not painted in old but new colors.

Reading the text over & over options ii & iii are less probable by authors & they believe in option i the most. I add to that option iv and believe that the airframe was never painted in RLM 76 in these areas at all, judging by few other test airframes from A-2 and A-3 period that remained NMF for various tests. It is important to notice that this was kind of a period in which Luftwaffe had advantage in the skies & the only time where NMF would be an option that would not be a problem and would help add to the speed of the aircraft & save on the production cost (in short).

Best,
Milos

PS Just to add that the authors of the book are showing the machines in all options as coded "Gelbe 10+ l"