Any known Ar196 losses in the english channel in 1941 ??

[Jagdkommando]

Hi,

Would it be too generally to ask, how many losses of Ar-196 were there in the english Channel in 1941 before 24.05.1941 ???
One particuarly AR-196 was shot at during a rescue operation. Feldwebel Ewerings survived but his gunner was killed by the shots from a british ship. Ewerings were later picked up by U-47 (Günther Prien) and later sent to Hospital in Germany. He never flew again. He died in 1979 in Norway.

[Fairlop]

Hi,

One machine from 5./KuFlGr 196 was s/d by P/O Graham of the 263 Sqn on 8/2/41.

Michal

[Jagdkommando]

Hi there Michal,

Thx for your very quick reply, but are there other losses of Ar-196 in the english channel between June and Dec.1940 ??

Jagdkommando

[Seaplanes]

I have the following four Ar 196 losses in the Channel area from 1.1.41 to 31.5.41:

08.02.41 5./196 Ar 196A-4 W.Nr. 0129 6W+ON (BB+YC). 100% about 4 miles south of Dodman Point in Cornwall. Shot down by a Westland Whirlwind of No. 263 Sq. RAF piloted by P/O Graham. Apparently, he was himself shot down by return fire from the Arado. The German crew were:
Oblt. Adolf Berger (F + St.kap.) and Lt.z.See Hans-Erich Hirzt (B) both killed.

28.03.41 1./196 Ar 196A-2 W.Nr. 0060. 100% crashed due to bad weather en-route for Osteende. Ofw. Johannes Westphal (F) missing, Lt.z.See Karl-Adolf Schlitt (B) injured. I have noted the unit code for this aircraft as 6W+HN indicating 5./196 but three different sources claim this to be a 1./196 aircraft. Could someone clear this.

22.04.41 5./196 Ar 196A-3 W.Nr. 0167. 100% Hourtin. Crashed during air combat practice. Lt.z.See Wolrad Nicol (B) and Fw. Rudi Koch (F) both killed.

19.05.41 5./196 Ar 196A-4 W.Nr. 0120 6W+EN (GA+DT) 100% English Channel. Shot down by RAF Hurricanes. Lt.z.See Karl-Ernst Schmidt (B) and Ofw. Günther Nowak (F) both missing.

[Jagdkommando]

Hi there Seaplanes,

What other kinds of german seaplanes had losses in the english channel from summer 1940-24.may 1941 ??

Jagdkommando

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hallo Seaplanes

Can't help you with 0060, but with regard to 0167 John Foreman in his book, Air War 1941-the turning point-part two claims this to have had the code 6W+ON

As usual I am just the messenger boy and can't vouch for any relevance of the statement

Cheers
Stig

[ju55dk]

Originally Posted by Seaplanes

I have the following four Ar 196 losses in the Channel area from 1.1.41 to 31.5.41:

28.03.41 1./196 Ar 196A-2 W.Nr. 0060. 100% crashed due to bad weather en-route for Osteende. Ofw. Johannes Westphal (F) missing, Lt.z.See Karl-Adolf Schlitt (B) injured. I have noted the unit code for this aircraft as 6W+HN indicating 5./196 but three different sources claim this to be a 1./196 aircraft. Could someone clear this.

In july 1940 Westphal and Schlitt both belonged to 1/196! It is not uncommon to find that crew belonged to another staffel than the aircraft! I do have some losses were this is the case! Or that the crew or aircraft was recently transferred at the time of the loss! In this case Ar 196 from 5. Staffel and crew from 1. Staffel.

Junker

Junker

[Seaplanes]

Thanks to Stig and Jörn for the info.

Seaplanes

[ju55dk]

Found a little more conserning 28.03.41.

Both Ar 196 from Scharnhorst did that day transfer from the ship! Due to bad weather they had to make emergency-landings!
Ar196 A T3+AK at Dunkirk. Crew and aircraft without damage!
Ar196 A 6W+HN lost at Ostende. Crew 1 injured and 1 missing!
This was reported by 1/196!!
Source. KTB FdL West.

Junker

[paulmcmillan]

Originally Posted by Jagdkommando

Hi,

Would it be too generally to ask, how many losses of Ar-196 were there in the english Channel in 1941 before 24.05.1941 ???
One particuarly AR-196 was shot at during a rescue operation. Feldwebel Ewerings survived but his gunner was killed by the shots from a british ship. Ewerings were later picked up by U-47 (Günther Prien) and later sent to Hospital in Germany. He never flew again. He died in 1979 in Norway.

One way of narrowing the date down is to look at the patrols of U-47

http://uboat.net/boats/u47.htm

As he was picked up by U-47 it must have been before she was lost on 7th March 1941

And BEFEORE 20 February, 1941

"U-47 left St. Nazaire (France) for her tenth patrol on 20 February, 1941. Just four days later they attacked convoy OB-290 and sank four ships for a total of 16,310 tons. The last radio message from U-47 was received in the morning of 7 March."

Need to find dates of her previous patrols


Patrol info


U-boatDepartureArrival 1.U-47 19 Aug, 1939 Kiel15 Sep, 1939 KielPatrol27 days2.U-47 8 Oct, 1939 Kiel17 Oct, 1939 WilhelmshavenPatrol9 days3.U-47 20 Oct, 1939 Wilhelmshaven21 Oct, 1939 Kiel 1 days4.U-47 16 Nov, 1939 Kiel18 Dec, 1939 KielPatrol32 days5.U-47 29 Feb, 1940 Kiel5 Mar, 1940 Wilhelmshaven 5 days6.U-47 11 Mar, 1940 Wilhelmshaven29 Mar, 1940 WilhelmshavenPatrol18 days7.U-47 3 Apr, 1940 Wilhelmshaven26 Apr, 1940 KielPatrol23 days8.U-47 3 Jun, 1940 Kiel6 Jul, 1940 KielPatrol33 days9.U-47 27 Aug, 1940 Kiel25 Sep, 1940 LorientPatrol29 days10.U-47 14 Oct, 1940 Lorient23 Oct, 1940 LorientPatrol9 days11.U-47 3 Nov, 1940 Lorient6 Dec, 1940 LorientPatrol33 days12.U-47 20 Feb, 1941 Lorient7 Mar, 1941 SunkPatrol15 days

I can't see how the crewman could have been picked up by U-47 in 1941 UNLESS between 6 Dec 1940 and 20 Feb 1941 she went on training sorties (if they did such a thing)
I suggest you look for a late 1940 Ar-196 loss (or prehaps another U-Boat?)