What was this Bf 109 wing modification?

[Broncazonk]

I've never seen this. Is it a MK 108 mount or a single RZ 65 rocket tube?

If it's a MK 108, that makes this aircraft a K variant, correct?

Bronc

[Snautzer]

Guncam

[Revi16]

It appears to be on both wings. That would be a pretty big mod just for the purpose of a gun camera when earlier variants of the 109 could carry a gun camera without such a modification.

[Harold Lake]

These photos have been around before...maybe 5-years ago. At the time no one seemed to know the answer, but at the end, many were of the opinion this was some kind of IF night fighter modification using infra-red lamps. Wing cannon or gun camera ports were, if I remember rightly, ruled out. Personally, I'm inclined to go with the IFR possibility. Who knows for sure?

Hal

[Broncazonk]

Here is an underside view of the "standard" 30mm wing mount shroud. (Note the similar semi-oval opening.)

The RZ 65 tube was perfectly round, so it's not that.

[bearoutwest]

A link to the previous TOCH discussion on these photos, so you can see where the last round of ideas ended up.
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...t=41014&page=4

...geoff

[Graham Boak]

It clearly isn't a K, as the engine bearer shows this to be the DB605A engine. It also bears no resemblance to the known photos of the wing modification for the internal cannon. The simple tubular shape suggest to me that it is indeed a single rocket tube.

[Mikael Olrog]

1) - IMHO a rocket tube would require an outlet for the exhaust. I doubt that they could fit an exchaust outlet in the Bf 109 wing. The opening is also not circular which contradicts it being a rocket. What would the point be to introduce such great changes on the production line at that time. It would be easier to just hang the rocket below the wing - a practice still employed on fighter aircraft up until today.



2) the idea that it would have something to do with Infra-red detection equipment is also far fetched. The 300 mm search light (Spanner I) fitted to the Do 17 Z-7 Kauz I was demed insuficient and a 600 mm (Spanner III) was developmed for the Do 17 Z-10 Kauz II. After the Do 215 B-5 Kauz III the deployment of infra red equipment seem to not have been pursued for aircraft, instead development focused on ground level use.



3) that they would fit two forward facing cameras is also not a very likely option, one camera would have been sufficient.



So I'd bet my money on some sort of large calibre gun, question is which unless of course it was the national health department collecting air samples for meassuring polution levels...

[schwarze-man]

Originally Posted by bearoutwest

A link to the previous TOCH discussion on these photos, so you can see where the last round of ideas ended up.
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...t=41014&page=4

...geoff

Thanks for that, Bear! It is worth looking at that previous TOCH link guys!
I stand by my comment that it looks like a MK108 fit and, the shape of the front cut-out matches the way it would have to be to fit that weapon with the short barrel and the need to install from underneath, up-and-in. Cheers

SM

[taitbb]

For me the most logical explanation is the same as messr. Schwarze-man. An attempt at mounting most likely the mk108 inside the wing. As mentioned...both the elongated opening and flat bottom profile if the inwing bulge match to the other example of the mk108 mounted below.

Note the HA1109 was also able to make a heavy cannon fire through the front spar. Mind you the Spanish did change the internal wing structure a lot, even if the external profile us mostly the same.