P-38 L-1 42-4384

[researcher111]

I was wondering if someone has complete details on
the fate of this P-38 after comming into hands of VVS
post Ops Frantic , where exactly was this aircraft
tested in Russia after the war and what did the Russian conclude
after test was accomplished in 1947.....such as
if the Russians every copied the P-38 .


Also which FG this acft originated from - Parts of the wings
are still in Russia and exibited at some Air University

[HGabor]

This P-38L-1-LO had nothing to do with the Frantic missions. This bird landed at Pécs airfield in Hungary on May 4, 1945 from the 15. USAAF, 1. FG, 94. FS. Her pilot was Capt. Lyle H. Baker. The soviets took it, added soviet markings and delivered to Ukraine. Later they assigned her to the 173 ИАП for testing purposes. No further info on her fate.
Cheers,

Gabor

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

To start with the serial number you give is not correct, it should be 44-24384, see photo.

"Red Stars 4"Lend-Lease Aircraft in Russia
By
C-F Geust ( name edited ) and G Petrov
Has a section on this a/c on page 196.
Quote
" BLACKIE" ( 44-24384, tactical "80", which had participated in Operation Frantic). After forced landing in Soviet held Territory it was repaired and used for some time by 173 IAPDD based at Minsk and later Czestochowa, Poland."
" After VE day it was transferred to NII VVS, and was evaluated by V.I.Khomyakov as leading test pilot, P.M.Stefannovskiy and You. A. Antipov. Because of unavailability of 100 octane fuel maximum engine power could not be reached."
End Quote.

The photo you provided is in the book on page 83 and notation says that it was taken in early 1947.
Also on page 212 is a colour profile of her, yellow fusilge bands on both , red on tail tips(top & bottom) as were wing tips, nose tip and prop cones.

Hope this is of some help to you ?
Alex

[HGabor]

I think her participation in the Frantic missions is too early. This was a P-38L, not a J. Sombor, Pécs, etc. were popular airfields in soviet zone in 1945 where dozens of damaged, etc. American planes landed. After repair many ended up in Soviet -mainly test- service. As far as I know, this was one of them.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Alex
As a gesture to our friend Carl-Fredrik, let's get his familly name right, Geust and nothing else!

Gabor
Can you elaborate a bit more about your data? Since very little what Geust and Petrov state fit directly into yours, I find it, in spite of that, easy enough to make things add up. However I need you with your data bank to elaborate a little bit more....

Cheers
Stig

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
The word to note is "participated" . it was not lost during "Frantic".

Also this article from the forum some time ago.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...t=31620&page=2

Also the a/c seems to have been accident prone, ground AFC in October 44 in Italy, see AAIR.

Alex

[Alex Smart]

Hello Stig,
Well spotted,
No matter how many times I check my post the tablet must change the words when/during posting, it happens regularly, Col usually brings it to my notice as well as yourself.
Thanks, but please be kinder in future.
Alex

[HGabor]

Hi Folks,
Usually I do not share my personal e-mails, but in this case, I think, I must make an exception in order to clarify the fate of P-38L 'Blackie' #80 once and for all. Again: she landed at Pécs, Hungary on May 4, 1945 where she fell in soviet hands who later used her for test purposes in 173 IAP. I know this from her pilot himself, Capt. Lyle H. Baker, who landed her there. See his e-mail that I received from him on February 5, 2003:

"Subject : P38#80
Date : Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:26:57 -0500

Hello Gabor-I received a message and photo from Jim Graham that related to my plane" Blackie"-Boom#80.

I left the plane at the Pecs, Hungary Airfield, on May 4th 1945. It had been assigned to me in early March 1945, when it arrived at the Salsola Aerodrome in Italy, as a new replacement to the 94th FTR. GRP. The rest of my missions, including the 47th and last, ended on May 4, 1945 at Pecs, were flown in this plane. I have retained most of the details about this mission and details of my stay with the Russians. If you would like further info please let me know, since I was the squadron leader that day and I still have a number of documents that were associated. I have often wondered what happened to my plane and was very interested, and pleased, that after almost 58 years you have provided some answers.

Regards,
(Capt.) Lyle H. Baker"

I think this clarifies (and corrects) her public story. (BTW, Jim Graham was member of the 71st FS and later historian of the 1st FG.)

Cheers,
Gabor

(PS: This was an old story, so I was a bit worried about finding it in my archives ;-)))

[Stig Jarlevik]

Excellent Gabor

Thank You ever so much!! That certainly settles it.

Alex
Point taken. There are days when I don't measure each word carefully enough.
Sorry about that....

Cheers
Stig

[HGabor]

You are most welcome. Back in 2003 I made a survey among the veterans of the 1st FG about their planes, including their boom# and Capt. Lyle H. Baker was one of those who replied. He landed #80, 'Blackie' at Pécs.

I also got photos and stories from 2Lt. Richard T. Sykes, who crashlanded his P-38L-1-LO # (yellow, not black!) '71', 44-24214, "Pride of (Billings &) JEAN" at Kerekegyháza, Hungary on December 6, 1944. His plane also fell in Russian hands, but she never flew again.

I did the same survey among the 14th FG veterans and got lots of info, especially from former 49th FS veteran, 2Lt. Donald A. Luttrell. Since as a historian I was especially interested in the aerial war over Hungary, I asked him about all of his missions over the country and he sent me amazing details from his personal notes. He eg. sent me the full lists of the pilots and their P-38 boom #s on the missions, when the 49th FS lost planes in Hungary.

This was amazing, because the MACRs usually have no info on the boom #, only the serial numbers, gun & engine numbers and the pilots. So finally I was able to match the authentic boom #s to the lost pilots and planes!

This was important info for graphical reconstruction of these birds for modellers, etc. From these lists I learned that eg. on the infamous June 14, 1944 Pétfürdő, Hungary mission Donald flew P-38J #47, JEWBOY, 42-104107, instead of his officially assigned #43, BILLIE THE RED, which stayed on the ground for maintenance and repairs this day. Since a few years ago Don has passed away, his letters -among others- are now unreplaceable treasures of my archives and our museum.

Gabor