Bomber Aces with min. 500 combat missions list

[PMoz99]

Hello JimP.
Thanks again for your information.

Dochtermann was apparently in Legion Condor, KG53, KG40, KG50 and KG200. With all due respect to his grandson, I think the total for him is fantasy, but that is all there is. I would think if anything that it is total flights, not combat. But even 2000+ flights ....?

I have looked more closely at your reply now, and I hope you can find the time to clear a few things up for me.
Your reply confirmed my details for Beust, but it was silent on the pilots Baetcher, Thurner, Leupert and Hogeback, and also on crew Kahle, Glaesner, Luxenburger and Klimek. Can you confirm or add anything for these?
My data agrees with yours for zu Eisenbach and Richter, but I wasn't sure how many combat missions they flew. My sources simply list the total as missions flown. When Kaiser/Bruetting say Feindflug (ff), do you think that can be taken as Combat Missions?
According to my info, Benno Herrmannn was awarded the RK for nearly 400 combat missions in June 1942. I have seen him listed with 250 elsewhere (with 520 added as a question), but I think 250 is a typo and it should read 520. Maybe it was mis-typed long ago and the error carried over ....?
I have not seen Seib listed with 500 combat missions, only 488.

Eagerly awaiting your response
Peter

[Jim P.]

All the info I posted is all from Kaiser (books are bi-lingual btw), whose volumes are still available. I don't know how serious your interest is in this subject, but just posting a list compiled from other internet sites of unknown accuracy or sourcing is pretty sketchy. Some are good, others not so much.

And there really isn't such a thing as 'too much detail'. You need data to support your conclusions. In the case of Mr. Kaiser, he presents bios of each of the known Kampfflieger RK winners with units, pertinent dates, known losses, etc, and then summarizes via appendices with things like 'most Feindflug', 'most Frontflug', by crew position, oldest in age, youngest, earliest RK by date, latest by date, etc.

I spent an hour or more checking some of the names you had against Kaiser and another 30 minutes typing my response. Which I was happy to do, but that's almost two hours taken away from my own ongoing projects. At this point you probably think I'm a dick, but I only have so much time available, like anyone else, and can only give your inquiries so much time.

I realize the Kaiser volumes are expensive (as are those from Prien, Mombeek, Barbas or whomever), but, depending upon your particular interest and how far you want to go with it, you're going to have to part with some cash at some point for detailed information from reliable sources. The internet will only get you so far.

[Nick Beale]

One simple way to look at a supposed record of 2000+ combat flights is to remember that the European war lasted 2077 days (in my lousy arithmetic). Do we seriously imagine that anyone averaged almost one flight a day, given the limitations imposed by weather, fuel supply, serviceability, illness/exhaustion, technical defects, enemy action and the fact that the bulk of the Kampfwaffe was finished after August 1944?

While multiple short-duration ops might be flown in a day (ground attack, fighters) how long could anyone sustain repeated bomber missions taking several hours without proper rest, Pervitin not withstanding?

And to endorse Jim P's point, all hobbies cost money, all the more so with minority interests like this one.

[PMoz99]

OK guys, thanks.
Jim, I appreciate your reply would have taken considerable time to research and prepare. I too have burned up considerable time in trying to provide answers to those who post on this and various other forums.
It's just, I thought that was what they were for ... ? No gripe here, just an observation. Your time is yours to choose how you spend it.
Cheers
Peter

[knusel]

Peter is right.
Michael
-------------------------------------------
Good evening Peter & Co,

Update: I have unified the 500+ mission bomber aces gathered so far. I also added the aircraft flown by them:

1. Bätcher, Hansgeorg 658 (first few as an observer) EL - He 111 & Ar 234
2. Brennecke, Wilhelm 586? or less ? RK - He 111
3. Skrzipek, Eduard 575/600 EL - He 111
4. Thurner, Hans 550 EL - He 111 & Ju 188
5. Höfer, Karl-Heinrich >545 EL - He 111
6. Wittmann, Herbert 534? EL - He 111
7. Seyfarth, Kurt >532 (according to Brütting) RK - Ju 52 & Do 217 & Ju 188
8. Leupert, Otto 525 RK - Ju 88
9. Beust, Hans-Henning 520 EL - He 111
10. Herrmann, Benno 520 (according to Brütting) RK - Do 17 & Ju 88
11. Valet, Hans-Joachim 504 RK - Ju 52 & Me 262
12. Antrup, Willi >500 EL - He 111
13. Riedesel, Volprecht >500 EL - Ju 88 & Me 262
14. Hogeback, Hermann >500 Schw - He 111 & Ju 88

• I didn't include Glasner, Hormann, Kahle, Klimek, Luxenberger & Richter because they are no pilots.
• I didn't include Bordelle, Dochtermann, Frost & Günthert because I don't know anything about them.
• I didn't include Günzel, Helbig, Kuntz, Petzold, Seib & Stemmler because I think they flew less than 500 missions.

Peter, the other day you told me want to find out the top aces who flew certain plane types, regardless of how many missions they flew in the plane in question.

Some of them are easy to define now:

• Do 17 - Herrmann
• Ju 52 (transport plane) - Seyfarth
• Ju 88 - Leupert
• He 111 - Bätcher
• Ju 188 - Thurner
• Do 217 - Seyfarth
• Ar 234 - Bätcher
• Me 262 - Valet

The top aces of the He 177 (Schlosser ?), Fw 200 (Mons ?) & Do 215 (???) are open to debate.

Cheers,

Michael

[PMoz99]

Thanks for the summary, Michael.
But I'm still not convinced of a few things.
Some of the pilots flew missions in the Spanish Civil War (Wittmann 67, Beust 110) and I can only assume the totals we have include those missions. If we're talking WW2 here ........
Seyfarth and Valet flew mostly or at least many transport missions as well, so their bomber totals would probably be considerably less.
I can't believe Helbig flew a desk for all of the last 3 years of the war. He was awarded the Swords in 9/42 for 330 missions which would have been flown by approx June 1942.
If Baetcher's total is 658 and he is generally regarded as the one with the most combat missions, then what of Hoefer's adjusted 670?
I have Bernard Jope as best with the FW200, then Robert Kowalewski. Don't have any mission total info for Mons.
JimP's info for Herrmann says 250FF, but my info is he got the RK in 6/42 for 400 (which means he probably reached that total maybe 3 months before that), so something not right there. I agree with your 520.
It is interesting I had around 700 for Kuntz, and when you look at the numbers from JimP, adding them all gets 705, not that that is right. Coincidence? But I wonder how much of that may have gone on with some of the others?
Cheers
Peter

[knusel]

Good evening Peter,

this is what Georg Brütting offers:

• Wittmann: 467 missions by 1Feb1945, not indicated how many in the Spanish Civil War.
• Beust: 100 missions in Spain, 11 in Poland, 29 in the Western campaign, >70 in the Battle of Britain, nearly 300 Eastern front missions by 1Mar1942, 410 missions by 25Nov1943.
• Seyfarth: 532 missions by 5Sep44, further missions from Hungary, not indicated how many transport missions.
• Valet: not mentioned.
• Helbig: flew a total of 350 missions in LG1. If his total is higher, he must have flown missions with other units.
• Bätcher: Brütting writes definitely that Bätcher was the WW2 Kampfflieger with the most missions.
• Höfer: 546 missions by 18Nov1944.
• Jope: number of missions not indicated, but unlike Mons, Petersen and Schlosser a Fw 200 pilot with the Oak Leaves.
• Kowalewski: number of missions and association with the Fw 200 not indicated.
• Mons: number of missions not indicated.
• Herrmann: nearly 400 missions by 19Jun1942, 520 mission at the end of the war.
• Kuntz: 365 missions by 14Mar1943.

Have a nice Sunday evening,

Michael

[PMoz99]

Hello Michael.
Does Bruetting say how many missions >4 hours Baetcher flew? Do we know if the total of 658 includes the adjustment for them, if any?

Wittmann 67 in Spain.
Beust contracted polio in 11/43, so perhaps did not fly missions again.
Helbig would have had his 350 missions well before he was assigned to Stab. Gen.d. Kampfflieger in 3/43. He returned to LG1 as GeK in 8/43 and was there to the end of the war. He was injured in a strafing attack in Normandy in 9/44 - I don't know if or for how long he was sidelined for as a result of that. I thought he would have flown more missions in this period.
I have Jope with 300+, +20 in Spain.
Kowalewski I have with 280, flew Ar234 in 1945. GrK III./KG40 1941-1943 and for a short time 8/43-9/43 was acting GeK KG40, and supposedly flew Fw200C-6 F8+AA in a 21 Condor attack on shipping in August 1943.
Cheers
Peter

[knusel]

Good morning Peter,

Bätcher flew 658 missions.
If you count the missions >4h twice he has more than 700.
I have to check the exact number at home.

Kind regards,

Michael

[Andrew Arthy]

Hi,

Bätcher flew 658 Feindflüge and 703 Frontflüge. These figures are from his Leistungsbuch.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles