Fw190 losses 17/5/1943.

[cheesey]

Hello all.

Can anyone provide possible Luftwaffe identities for the following RAF claims for the 17th May, 1943.

Sgt.Bache and Lt.Gran both of 331 Sqn.(Spitfire), each claimed a Fw190 destroyed 10 miles north of Guernsey at 13:00hrs.

Any help with these losses greatly appreciated.

Steve.

[Chris Goss]

JG 2 lost a number of ac of the Britanny coast but of the FW 190 losses, just 2 were lost and evene then only crash-landed. If you had said Bf 109s, there were a number of possibilities

[cheesey]

Thanks Chris.

Both pilots are pretty certain in their combat reports that the enemy a/c engaged were Fw190s. But, I suppose they could be wrong although weather conditions and visibility were very good on that day!

I have the following as MIA on that day:
Lt.Lothar Werner. Staffel Kap. of 5./JG2. Bf109 G-6 WNr.15296. Black 9 lost north of Morlaix.

Any chance of passing on the others please Chris?

Steve.

[Chris Goss]

FW 190 A-5, 7319, 9/JG 2 Force-landed Theix 1207 hrs. Uffz Rudolf Gerhardt wounded
Bf 109 G-4, 19435, 5/JG 2, Croissenville, Uffz Werner Grundig wounded
Bf 109 G-6, 15297, Black 14, 5/JG 2. N.Morlaix Lt Guenther Krauss killed
Bf 109 G-6, 15296, Black 9, as above, Lt Lothar Werner killed
FW 190 A-4, 791, 1/JG 2, Force-landed Lorient, Uffz Hans Pusch wounded

[Franek Grabowski]

I have got gun cam stills from 316 Sqn claims in Abbeville-Amiens area. They are both definetely Me 109G/R-6s. One of them is believed to be actually destroyed, the pilot bailing out. No markings visible. I believe I/JG27 is also a candidate.

[Chris Goss]

Franek: Too far east for his query I believe

[Stig Jarlevik]

Chris (and anyone else for that matter)

I have a small book by Christian Federl about JG 2 (A bit disappointing to be honest) where he states what you say, but minus the actual aeroplane details. One thing that struck me is that he claims that the combat where Rudolf Gehrhardt was wounded took place at 12.04H and that he later died on 12.07.43. I notice you state the combat took place at 12.07H

Is this just a freak strange co-incidence or is his file hard to read or misinterpreted?Trivia I guess, but sometimes I just get so darn curious..

He also list an Alfred Mecklenberg as lost on a Werkflug on this day at Bauville, belonging to 6.Staffel.

Cheers
Stig

[cheesey]

Thanks all.

Considering that Guernsey is basically 80 miles north-east of Morlaix could it be that these 331 pilots did,in fact,engage 109s of JG2 ? I have come across combat reports/MACRs/ORBs etc where the authors have put a combat or loss at a particular location when it occurred some distance away! US reports often refer to the Brittany Peninsula as the Brest Peninsula or the coast of Brest. I have a MACR in which three different crew members put their ditching at three different locations approx. 30 miles apart.

Also (and I know this has been asked many times before!), how easy was it to mis-identify an enemy a/c during combat, even on clear days? 190s and 109s seem quite different when veiwed in the comfort of your own home. I hope this doesn't offend but how many fighter pilots exaggerated their own and others claims? I ask this as I have recently kept coming up against brick walls when matching claims to losses!

Steve.

[Franek Grabowski]

Chris, indeed, I was a little bit sleepy when writing the post.
Steve, with ease, at least judging by gun cam stills I have seen.

[Chris Goss]

Stig: All I have is 1207 LK force-landed wounded; I have nothing on him dying later. As to the other chap, I did not mention him as he was a non-combat loss