Nowotny's 3rd victory for 19.07.41

[Nokose]

Walter Nowotny had two victories confirmed on the 19th but was his 3rd just listed as a probable? Volume 1 of BCRS shows future VVS ace Lt Aleksandr Avdeyev of 153 IAP shooting him down but he in turn shot down Avdeyev's I-153. Nowotny said that his wingman wasn't present at that time. Did this show up on his claims or is it like Helmut Lipfert's 25.02.45 victory over Rumanian ace Traian Darjan which wasn't witnessed and couldn't be verified until after the war?

[robert]

Hi,


yes his third claim on the 19.07.41 was not confirmed. His third confirmed claim is listed on 31.07.41 (DB-3 at 14.15 Pl.Qu.28143/25 Ost).
On 19.07.41 in the same air combat as Nowotny Uffz.Otto Fischer claimed at 19.24 one I-15 shot down (Nowotny claimed 2xI-15 at 19.24 and at 19.25 - all claims were obtained 7km NW Arensburg).

Regards

Robert

[Nokose]

Robert, Thanks for verification. I read in the letter that he wrote his brother that he had shot down three planes on the 19th before going down. With the threads about over claiming I guess can be added unclaimed victories for all sides that turned out to be real. I don't think the Luftwaffe counted proables. I remember a U.S. P-51 pilot that shot down 2 Me-262 but had no witness or gun camera at the time. He finally got credit and a medal back in the 80's after a German pilot who was there witnessed it and came forward for him. Thanks again.

[Andrey Dikov]

I would add that none of the Soviet fighters (3 I-153s and 1 Yak-1) which took part in combat with Nowotny's pair wasn't shot down actually at all.

And that wasn't Avdeyev who shot Nowotny down. Avdeyev served in 153 iap and fought near Leningrad - a very far from the Oesel isle.

Nowotny was shot down by naval Yak-1 pilot from 71 iap of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet.

And another remark. I seriously researched that period and that area and regarding Nowotny I particularly can say that only 1 and probably another 1 of his first 10 claims can be confirmed by actual Soviet losses.

It's comparing with almost 100% rate of confirmation of his comrade Lt. Hans-Leopold Henkemeier, who managed to achieve 7 victories before he was shot down and later shot in captivity.

[robert]

Hi Andrey,


can you give us more details about victims of Lt.Henkemeier?

Regards

Robert

[Nokose]

Andrey, Christer Bergstrom listed his source as "Sokoly, Leningrad: lenizdat 1971 pages 29-40". Is that a good source? Do you know who the 71 IAP pilot was that got him?

[Andrey Dikov]

Christer made a mistake unfortunately. That source doesn't contain any definite information about the place of the combat.

I use archive sources/documents and have the descriptions of the event from air unit point of view, from air/sea surveillance posts point of view and I even know who was responsible that Nowotny wasn't captured.

Of course I know the name of the victor. That was St.Lt. Babernov, who later was transferred to Northern Fleet Air Force and became commander of 78 iap VVS SF. His total credit was only 4 victories with Nowotny as the first one.

[marsyao]

Originally Posted by Andrey Dikov

I even know who was responsible that Nowotny wasn't captured.
.

That would be most interesting, any more details please ?

[Andy Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Andrey Dikov

Of course I know the name of the victor. That was St.Lt. Babernov, who later was transferred to Northern Fleet Air Force and became commander of 78 iap VVS SF. His total credit was only 4 victories with Nowotny as the first one.

Hi Andrey,

Could you tell me between what dates Babernov was C/O 78 IAP-SF. Also was he a squadron commander in that regiment before he became it's C/O?

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

[Andrey Dikov]

Hello, Andy,

Started to dig for my old post aqbout Nowotny and have found your question:

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

Hi Andrey,

Could you tell me between what dates Babernov was C/O 78 IAP-SF. Also was he a squadron commander in that regiment before he became it's C/O?

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

Well, he became CO on May 9, 1943 and continued to be untill the end of the war. 78 iap SF flew Kittyhawks as fighter-bombers mainly. That's - as far as I know, because I'm not keen in Northern theatre actions.

Yuriy Rybin is the best researcher for this case.