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Old 4th March 2020, 18:18
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Photo Aviatik B.I

Hello,


Currently for sale on ebay is a photo of Aviatik B.I 659/14 named Koblenz at:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/AK-Deutsches...4AAOSwhD9eX93G


Is anyone aware of the unit that operated this machine?


There is a further image of an Aviatik B.347 at :




https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-AK-Flug...kAAOSwz8teWgqw


This may be noteworthy as B.347/14 seems a possible option as there is an immediately number range appearing to cover B.330/14 to B.344/14 but I have not previously seen serial B.347/14 assigned in published sources.


Regards,


Clint

Last edited by musec04; 4th March 2020 at 20:12.
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Old 4th March 2020, 22:56
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Photo Aviatik B.I

Quote:
Originally Posted by musec04 View Post
Hello,

There is a further image of an Aviatik B.347 at :

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-AK-Flug...kAAOSwz8teWgqw

This may be noteworthy as B.347/14 seems a possible option as there is an immediately number range appearing to cover B.330/14 to B.344/14 but I have not previously seen serial B.347/14 assigned in published sources.

Regards,
Clint
Hi Clint

The problem is that everywhere I look, the aircraft seems to carry the number 3347 (check the blow up).

Not that that actually makes me any wiser, since I cannot find any B (or C) type carrying such a number either. Neither Grosz nor Herris is helpful with their publications.

A very intriguing find Nick

Cheers
Stig
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Old 4th March 2020, 23:57
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photo Aviatik B.I

Hi Stig,


Granted, the serial on the tail does look very like 3347.


However, as your checks have already revealed the only year in which a serial for B.3347 exists is 1917 and an LVG B.III (Schul).


As for a C.3347 1916,1917 and 1918 are already accounted for leaving only 1915. The nearest serial I have for 1915 is C.3309 for an LVG C.III so not promising either. Now C.3547/15 was a Aviatik C.I, but I don't believe either of use feel that the second figure on the tailplane is a 5.


My question to you is, do you think the first two charecters on the tailplane are identical? Clearly having decided that the serial is B.347/14,I don't but I do understand your reservations.I read it as a cursive B. Am I sure I'm correct? Well frankly,no. But would the first charecter on the tailplane not logically be a letter rather than a number and the little that can be seen of the first charecter on the fuselage is while consistent with a 3 also consistent with a B. and B.347/14 is at least an option that fits with other known serials. I have photographic images of B.344/14 prior to B.347 and either B.350/14 or B.352 succeeding it.



Were I to see any C series Aviatik machines in proximity to C.3347/15 at a future date I would necessarily have to reconsider and I very much understand your doubts.


Regards,


Clint
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Old 5th March 2020, 10:05
Bertrand H Bertrand H is offline
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Re: Photo Aviatik B.I

Hi Clint,

if it helps...

_347.jpg

Bertrand
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Old 5th March 2020, 10:34
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photo Aviatik B.I

Hi Bertrand,


Thanks for the response. Is that image from the first photo of the seller or from the second close up image? If its from the second I'm not sure that we're any closer to being able to definitely say whether it is B.347 or 3347.



Regards,


Clint
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Old 5th March 2020, 11:36
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Photo Aviatik B.I

Clint/Bertrand

Don't know how you managed to twist the photo around that way Bertrand, but it makes me feel a bit more uneasy about the digits actually being 3347. I was comfortable enough to assign a certain fuzziness in the photo to dismiss the initial 3 as being a B, but now I am not comfortable at all.

To be honest, I "hate" situations like this, where you are so close, just inches away to finally grab it when it gently slides away....if you know what I mean.

Things don't get any better that whatever we choose we are still left wondering what it really was...

Cheers
Stig
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Old 5th March 2020, 14:02
Bertrand H Bertrand H is offline
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Re: Photo Aviatik B.I

Hi Clint/Stig

The image came from the second close up.

I do not know if it is an official factory made writing or an help for the ground crew. If it is the second way, you know that you can write very quickly and sometimes your writing is only for you and not the other people....

Bertrand
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Old 5th March 2020, 15:24
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photo Aviatik B.I

Hi Bertrand/Stig,


I've been checking some further images of Aviatik B.I in the serial range inthe vicinity of a putative B.347/14. Both B.342/14 and B.344/14 show the same type of tail insignia as the machine we're talking about. All three machines show the cross as composed of, as it were, four seperate triangles. This is not, as far as I'm aware the case for any Aviatik C.I.


Definite evidence for identifying the machine as B.347/14? Once again no.As you say Stig "I "hate" situations like this, where you are so close, just inches away to finally grab it when it gently slides away" How very true.


Regards,


Clint
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Old 6th March 2020, 15:25
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Buckeye30 Buckeye30 is offline
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Re: Photo Aviatik B.I

Hi Clint. I think a few more (not many) German aeroplanes used that style of insignia in 1914-16, this document is dated April 1916; sure I've seen one or two Albatros Bs with it.
Nick



https://www.warmuseum.ca/firstworldw...a-recognition/
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Old 6th March 2020, 16:05
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photo Aviatik B.I

Hi Nick,


Thanks for the response. What I was aiming at in my last post, was particularly that the type of cross appeared to rule out a Aviatik C type, specifically a putative 3347. What would interest me, is whether any of the other photos you've seen were carried by machines constructed later than 1914. So de facto ruling out an Aviatik C type. No doubt other 1914 built, machines did carry this style of cross, including the Aviatik B.659/14 Koblenz shown in the first link in this thread.



While totally accepting Stig's view that a definitive identification of the machine in the photo as B.347/14 remains elusive, I would tend to regard the circumstantial evidence as pointing more strongly in that direction than for 3347, the style of cross being just one more eleement supporting the case, along with the serial fitting into a known series. I'm also increasing tending to view the first charecter on the fuselage as different from the second, but would readily admit confirmation bias is probably coming into play on my part!



Regards,


Clint
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