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Pre-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation Please use this forum to discuss Military and Naval Aviation before the Second World War.

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Old 30th May 2020, 21:43
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Weimar Doppeldecker

Hello,


A unfamiliar (to me) manufacturer Weimar and a photo of its Sachsen Doppeldecker at :


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-PK-Weim...oAAOSwB0he0Yce


It probably was not intended for military use so may be off topic on this threa. Not sure if its a war time or post war machine. Anyone know anything about it at all?


Here another interesting image from the same manufacturer with a cross on the underside of the wing this time so either wartime or even prewar:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-PK-Wk-1...AAAOSwsvhe0YXn


And another photo :


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-PK-Weim...kAAOSwOFZe0Ydj


Also from rthe same seller is another obscure manufacturer Erich Schmidt at:




https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-PK-Flug...8AAOSw5Mle0YY4


Regards,


Clint

Last edited by musec04; 30th May 2020 at 22:28.
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Old 31st May 2020, 10:53
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Weimar Doppeldecker

Never heard of it Clint

Neither has Bruno Lange since it is not in his "German aircraft Bible" either.
Since it is not I have not gone through Supf or any other books I have on obscure German aviation.

If the photos are to be believed, we can see it all starts with Erich Schmidt probably just before WW 1 and his company seems then to have been either re-named or taken over by new capital owner and named Weimar etc etc. Schmidt is now only listed as their pilot. Must have disappeared soon after.

Cheers
Stig
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Old 31st May 2020, 11:00
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Weimar Doppeldecker

Hi Stig,


Yes an interesting find I think. My first resort was to Lange and I felt certain there'd be some mention at least.But no. Still it's really good to find something genuinely new. I did an internet search and there's something on the company in the Thuringen state archives. I need to check further if there's anyway of accessing short of physically being there.


Regards,


Clint
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Old 1st June 2020, 17:31
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Weimar Doppeldecker

Hallo again Clint

Well, this is really a hornets nest.
My friend Kees in Holland, knew the company and he sent me some photos and pointed me to a discussion about the company on the Aerodrome site.

Census seems to be as follows
Flugzeugbau (or Firma) Manhardt & Schmidt was from Leipzig and the pilot Erich Schmidt was the instructor for the flying school of that firm. Their first design was a Farman look-a-like type from 1911 which they called Sachsen Doppeldecker (it seems they called all other aircraft the same thing)
The company was one of the first to set up a factory at the airfield Leipzig-Lindenthal. It moved to Leipzig-Mockau in 1913 when the new airfield and Luftschiffhalle was opened there. Untill 1914 it remained independent but in the end was bought up by DFW. Their last design, a 1914 biplane on floats, was not completed.
Mainly the company name is given as Sächsische Automobil- und Flugzeugwerke"- hence the confusion with the other saxon company in Leipzig, the SFW, that built "Thiele biplanes".
Other names were"Flugzeugwerke Sachsen-Doppeldecker" and Lange gives: later - "Erich Schmidt Flugzeugwerke". Thus it seems Schmidt went on his own in ca 1913. Perhaps Manhardt went on his own somewhere else (He has been stated to have been a pupil of Schmidt, taking his licence in 1912).

The photo with the title Weimarische Flugschule u. Flugzeugwerke Inhaber Gustav Anger is intriguing.

One source claims there never existed a company like that, but I am not sure. Maybe, just maybe, when DFW bought Sächsische Automobil und Flugzeugwerke, Schmidt and this Anger (financier as well?) went their own way and built a single aircraft later in 1914, as shown in the photo on sale.
I have asked Kees about this and his opinion. So let's see what he answers.

As you can see Lange has a little bit about all this, but not much....

Cheers
Stig
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Old 1st June 2020, 17:52
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Weimar Doppeldecker

Hello Stig,


Excellent information. Thanks for your effort and Kees' info. I look forward to sseing what he comes back with, because as you say there is the photo after all.Given that one photo definitely has an aircraft with crosses, I think I'd be correct in saying that it can't be earlier than 1914.At least that's the usual take on crosses on German aircraft and I don't think I've seen them on photos dated earlier.




Regards,


Clint
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Old 1st June 2020, 18:20
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Weimar Doppeldecker

Thanks Clint

Well the one with crosses most likely dates the photo to after the break out of war. Think (but don't know when) private flying was forbidden and all aircraft used by schools had to paint crosses on their remaining aircraft. If not they would probably risk being shot at....

Kees is just marvelous. He knows everything.... , well almost....

Cheers
Stig
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