Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 8th January 2007, 16:19
yogybär yogybär is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ER.DE
Posts: 615
yogybär is on a distinguished road
Exclamation Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

The VVS got nearly 3.000 Hurries starting in late 1941.

I roughly assume the arrivals like this:
1941 = 250
1942 = 1500
1943 = 1000
Does anyone have better data?

Especially in 1942, the VVS needed (and used!) every combat A/C they got, so I think also all Hurries were pout into action. A lot was used (& lost) near Murmansk.

Some data from Luftwaffe claims:
- 261 altogether
- nearly all from JG77/JG5, means Murmansk
- 43 claims in June-September 1942 some by JG3 & JG52, means during the german summeroffensive in the South.

Now to my questions:
- Where were all these Hurricanes used?
- Which units?
- from when up to which date, to which extent, etc. pp.

That's it already
__________________
Liebe Grüsse, yogy
http://www.yogysoft.de
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 9th January 2007, 02:29
Buz Buz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 70
Buz
Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

Hurricane Deliveries

1941 - 484
1942 - 1115
1943 - 853
1944 - 382

Total - 2834 (figures do not include anything lost in transist)

I understand that they operated over the Northern Areas, with the main areas being the Kalinin, Leningrad and Karelian Fronts, then later were issued to PVO units. Russian Hurricanes were also seen over Stlingrad and Vienna amoungst many other places.

More than 30 units used the Hurricane

Hope this helps a little

Buz
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 9th January 2007, 04:16
Yves Marino Yves Marino is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 62
Yves Marino
Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogybär View Post
The VVS got nearly 3.000 Hurries starting in late 1941. Now to my questions:
- Where were all these Hurricanes used?
- Which units?
- from when up to which date, to which extent, etc. pp.

That's it already
Gruesse Yogybaer!

Check this sites:
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/englis...5252/index.htm
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/englis...anes/index.htm

In this forum check the thread started by Jack Sanders called "VVS Statistical Digest "(sticky), for delivered planes (in russian) or find the information you need under:
http://ilpilot.narod.ru/vvs_tsifra/gl_4/4.139.html

By the way you have written in the above thread in may 2006! Already forgotten!

Buz, sorry if I repeat you - I guess you have used the same source?
__________________
Yves
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 9th January 2007, 11:02
kalender1973 kalender1973 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 175
kalender1973 is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogybär View Post
The VVS got nearly 3.000 Hurries starting in late

Now to my questions:
- Where were all these Hurricanes used?
- Which units?
- from when up to which date, to which extent, etc. pp.

That's it already
Hello,

the Hurricane was most hated plane(by soviet pilot) that was delivered to USSR from western partners. Therefore, by the chance, the Hurricane was banned from the front line to the Home Air defence, the units, that did not partipiate in the war so active as VVS KA (Soviet air force).
http://ilpilot.narod.ru/vvs_tsifra/gl_3/3.121.html
The only exception, is the air arm of northern fleet (VVS SF), where Hurricane was used until end of 43.

Best regards
__________________
Igor
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 9th January 2007, 18:41
yogybär yogybär is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ER.DE
Posts: 615
yogybär is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

Hi all, salut Yves (tu est francais?).

Thanks for ths infos. I didn't find the L&L figures in the stat. digest myself... now I have them .

I am especially interested in the dteails about the use of Hurricanes on the "main front", meaning Leningrad & especially South 1942. Which units, losses etc.

BTW: The delivery of 400+ L&L-Hurris in 1944 really shows the disrespect of the British towards their "Allied" partner USSR...

Yves, what you mean about May 2006?
__________________
Liebe Grüsse, yogy
http://www.yogysoft.de
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 9th January 2007, 18:57
kalender1973 kalender1973 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 175
kalender1973 is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogybär View Post
Hi all, salut Yves (tu est francais?).

Thanks for ths infos. I didn't find the L&L figures in the stat. digest myself... now I have them .

I am especially interested in the dteails about the use of Hurricanes on the "main front", meaning Leningrad & especially South 1942. Which units, losses etc.

BTW: The delivery of 400+ L&L-Hurris in 1944 really shows the disrespect of the British towards their "Allied" partner USSR...

Yves, what you mean about May 2006?
Hi,

the losses of all plane of russian nothern fleet over 41-44 are here:
http://www.eismeerfront.com/eis_html/poteri.htm

Unfortenately, the allied could not be elected by vote. Otherwise the USSR found somebody, who open the second front in the Normandy in 42 or may be 43, what the Stalin demands and even Roosvelt accepted.

Reagrds
__________________
Igor
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10th January 2007, 06:01
Yves Marino Yves Marino is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 62
Yves Marino
Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogybär View Post
Hi all, salut Yves (tu est francais?).
...Yves, what you mean about May 2006?
No, I'm Canadian and .... it was August, sorry!

Quote:
August 28th, 2006, 15:43
yogybär
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Erlangen.DE
Posts: 129


Re: VVS Statistical Digest
Thanks, that's a very good link!

Next stage would be to have the types "Bomb., Shturmo., Istreb." sub-divided into actual planetypes. At least for fighters, I'd love to see that...

Or does already it exist and I just missed it?
__________________
Liebe Grüsse, Jörg
http://www.yogysoft.de

Gruesse!
__________________
Yves
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10th January 2007, 10:57
yogybär yogybär is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ER.DE
Posts: 615
yogybär is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

OK Yves, merci .

Please guys, what about discussing the Anglo-soviet relations in a different thread? This one here is MINE and about VVS Hurricanes.

Graham, that info on 100octane fuel is interesting. Do you know how far performance deteriorated due to use of low-quality-gasoline?
__________________
Liebe Grüsse, yogy
http://www.yogysoft.de
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10th January 2007, 11:14
Brian Brian is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posts: 3,972
Brian is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

Apologies Yogi!

Cheers
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10th January 2007, 12:36
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 806
Mirek Wawrzynski is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

Hi
There is some information, which could be helpful in your's deeper discution. One remakr, this is a thext, which I had done 6 years ago and now I would put some new, fresh data, when I would like to make it again.


During WWII the USSR received 3082 Hurricanes as part of aid from Britain. According to British sources 2,952 aircraft were delivered. The difference resulted from the fact that the Russians have assembled some aircraft from incomplete machines delivered for cannibalisation.

The first Hurricanes in the USSR were those of no. 151 Wing RAF. This comprised two squadrons, nos. 81 and 134. A total of 39 Hurricane IIB Trop fighters with British air and ground crew arrived to provide air defence of Murmansk.

As early as 22 September 1941 a committee of the NII VVS (Air Force R&D Centre) headed by Col. K.A. Gruzdev received the first aeroplane (22899). The reception report stated that the aeroplane was not new, and lacked some instruments. Several subsequent Russian reports pointed out that the aircraft were suffering from numerous faults, and were worn. In their reports the Russians assessed these aircraft as being between the I-16 and the Yak-1. The Hurricanes were allocated to 72 SAP of the Northern Fleet and the 78 IAP (formed in October 1941, based on the staff of 72 SAP). Throughout 1941 the USSR received a total of 484 Hurricanes.


Greater numbers of Hurricanes appeared over the Eastern Front in the spring and summer of 1942. At that time the aircraft entered service with the Northern Fleet, Baltic Fleet, VVS units at the Karelian, Kalinin, North-Western, Voronezh Fronts, and to PVO (air defence) units. Throughout 1942 the USSR received from the British 932 Hurricanes.

Hurricane Modifications in the USSR.

As early as December 1941, workshops of 72 SAP started to modify the armament, replacing Browning guns with two 12.7 mm (0.5 in) UBK guns with 100 rounds per gun, or with ShVAK cannon. Some aircraft were converted to carry a single FAB-50 bomb under each wing. The latter modification was first suggested by Capt. Boris Safonov, OC 78 IAP. Another variant of armament modification consisted in replacing 4 Browning guns with two UBK ones. Apart from changes in armament, Safonov also had the pilot's seat armour replaced in his aeroplane, using one from a crashed I-16.
Apart from conversions made on an individual basis in combat units, the VVS HQ decided to replace armament and cockpit armouring in all Mark IIA and IIB aircraft. In March 1942 a national level decision was made to re-arm all Hurricanes with more powerful domestic armament. Three variants of the new armament were considered: the first consisted of four 20 mm ShVAK cannon; the second of two ShVAK cannon and two 12.7 mm UBT guns; and the last of four UBT guns. The latter proved the best solution. As the Russians did not have enough of the UBT guns, the second variant was introduced. During this conversion, Hurricanes were also fitted with rails for RS-82 rocket missiles and with bomb racks.
Conversion started at the Moscow-based Factory no. 81. Pilots delivered the aircraft directly to the factory airfield. Apart from the Factory no. 81, conversions were also made at Podmoskove, Podlipki - 6 IAK PVO repair workshops. Apart from conversions made behind the lines, teams of workers from the Factory no. 81 were sent to the front line, where they would make the conversions in field, almost under combat conditions. The work was carried out at airfields of Kubinka, Khimki, Monino, Yegorevka. In all the Russians fitted their armament to some 1,000 Mk IIAs and IIBs.

Fighter-Bomber Version.

In the Soviet Union, not unlike in Britain, the Hurricane found wide use as a fighterbomber. During armament modification bomb racks and rocket rails were fitted. The Russians would use a single 50 or 100 kg FAB-50 or 100 bomb and/or RS-82 rocket missiles. Hurricanes were allocated to attack regiments during shortages of Il-2 Shturmovik aircraft, to perform the same duties. That was the case in 65 SNAP which fought north of the Polar Circle. On 9 April 1942 25 Hurricanes were delivered to the regiment. From 26 April the unit entered combat. Hurricanes continued to serve there until October 1942, in a number of roles.
Other modifications. The aeroplane was subject to numerous modifications, some rather far-going. In one of the modified batches the Hurricanes were equipped with additional post for a rear gunner with a ShKAS machine gun. These aircraft were used for long range artillery spotting (with a range of 25 km). The gunner was also a spotter to correct the artillery fire. In order to facilitate his task, a port was cut out in the bottom of the aeroplane. Some 20 aircraft were converted that way. They flew in Leningrad, Volkhov, Kalinin Fronts. Some aircraft were converted for photo reconnaissance. An AFAI camera was fitted in the fuselage behind the pilot. These machines went to special reconnaissance regiments.
In the Paratroop Academy at Saratov Hurricanes were used for towing of transport gliders (Antonov A-7 and G-11) to carry both equipment and men. Such aeroplane-plus-glider teams were used to provide supplies for partisan units. Hurricanes were used at Saratov until 1945. Some aircraft were converted to two-seater trainers (HL665, for example). One of such aeroplanes was used in 39 CAM of the Northern Fleet. Some went to flying schools. No less than 6 aircraft of the 14th Army were modified this way.
In the tactical and naval aviation. Soviet Hurricanes first entered combat in the northern parts of the Soviet Union, in Murmansk area. Between October and December 1941 72 SAP, 78 IAP of the Northern Fleet Air Force, and 152, 760 IAP of the Leningrad Front (later Kalinin Front) entered fighting. These units started combats over Karelia and Kola Peninsula. In late 1941 the Northern Fleet alone had 70 Hurricanes.

A Division of Hurricanes in the Battle of Stalingrad.

In early June 1942 a whole fighter division equipped entirely with Hurricanes, 235 IAD became part of 8 VA (8th Air Army). The unit was commanded by Lt. Col. I. D. Podgomiy. It comprised 46, 191, and 436 IAP. On 25 June it was joined by 180 IAP equipped with 20 Hurricanes. All those regiments, apart from 191 IAP, have been trained at Ivanovo. In order to facilitate rapid conversion to the British equipment, 3 British pilots and 16 fitters were present at Ivanovo. When moving to the front line, the division was largely equipped with aircraft fitted with the Soviet armament, or Mk IIC aircraft. In heavy fighting, with constantly changing unprepared landing grounds, the Hurricanes started to wear out rapidly. For example 436 IAP changed airfields no less than 12 times within 2 months. On 22 July 1942 two surviving Hurricanes of 191 IAP were handed over to a neighbouring unit. Two days later also 46 and 180 IAP were sent back for replenishment at Ivanovo. All the surviving and serviceable aircraft were assembled in 436 IAP. On 1 August 1942 8 VA had a total of 11 Hurricanes, of which only 3 combat-ready. During the rapid retreat of the Russians, all remaining Hurricanes were destroyed by own ground personnel at Kalch-on-Don airfield.

In the Baltic Fleet Air Force.

In the naval aviation, apart from the Northern Fleet, Hurricanes were used by the Baltic Fleet. The only unit to fly Hurricanes in the Baltic Fleet VVS was 3 GIAP. In July 1942 it was withdrawn from the front at Leningrad, to Novinki airfield. Previously its pilots flew I-16s, LaGG-3s and Yak-1s. At Novinki they were awaited by new Hurricanes. After short conversion training, in late July 1942 the unit flew to Factory no. 81 in Moscow in order to convert to Soviet armament and cockpit armouring (that from the LaGG-3 was used

Tank Buster - the Mk IID in the USSR.

The aid to the USSR also included the Mk IID. The story behind these deliveries had it roots in correspondence between Churchill and Stalin in mid-1943. Churchill mentioned the excellent results of using Hurricane IIDs against German armour in North Africa. Stalin liked that idea and asked Churchill to send Mk IIDs to the USSR. These came from RAF units in North Africa. Disassembled aircraft were shipped by sea from Bizerte to Basra, where the crates were unloaded. The aircraft were reassembled and checked. Then they were handed over to pilots of 6 PIAP. From Basra they were ferried by air via Tehran to Kirovabad. There the aircraft were handed over to 11 ZBAP.
First Hurricane IIDs arrived on 4 September 1943. Of the promised 60 aircraft the Russians received only 46. In addition the Soviets received several dozen (most probably 30) Mark IVs.
Some Mk IIDs and Mk IVs were allocated to 441 IAP in 106 IAD PVO, based near Bolovoye. The aircraft were used operationally there in 1943/44.


This part of English text is taken from my book:
"Hurricane w obcej służbie" (Hurricane in Foreign Service; Belgian, Finnish , Yugoslavian: VVKJ, NOVJ, German, Italy, Romanian and Soviet Union users), Mirosław Wawrzyński, published by AJaKS - Warszawa 2001.
Polish text with English summary. Soviet part is much reduced , when you compare it with Polish version.
__________________
Mirek Wawrzyński
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Soviet over Finland. 25-30 VI 1941. New Article Mirek Wawrzynski Allied and Soviet Air Forces 20 18th January 2007 18:36
German treatment of captured Soviet Flying Personnel kaki3152 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 1 6th January 2006 17:20
Soviet air force losses 1941-1945 Six Nifty .50s Allied and Soviet Air Forces 12 15th May 2005 18:57
Looking for photos of ARR Hurricanes Mirek Wawrzynski Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 12th May 2005 09:56
PR Hurricanes - any sent to Soviet Union? Kari Lumppio Allied and Soviet Air Forces 1 30th April 2005 11:28


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net