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Old 20th October 2021, 11:40
rickback4444 rickback4444 is offline
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Information concerning the loss of Karl Heinz Muller - killed 16.10.43

Hi,

Can anyone find details over the loss of Karl Heinz Muller who was a bordfunker in a bomber squadron and who fell in battle on the 16th October 1943?

He was another experienced flier with the EK I and II and flight battle badge.

I think I have seen somewhere he was lost over Russia?

Thanks

Rick
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Old 20th October 2021, 17:17
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Information concerning the loss of Karl Heinz Muller - killed 16.10.43

Hello Rick,

GQM loss return 19 Oct 1943, item 10:
15.10.43 I./KG 6 Feindflug, Ort und Ursache unbekannt, Ju 188 E-1 260179 3E+BL 100%.
F Hptm Waldecker, Helmuth vermisst
B Gefr Haupt, Waldemar vermisst
Bf Uffz Müller, Karl-Heinz vermisst
Bs Ofw Hohmann, Julius vermisst.
Correction 25 Nov 1943: Uffz Müller, Ofw Hohmann gefallen.

Regards
Leo
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Old 20th October 2021, 18:03
rickback4444 rickback4444 is offline
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Re: Information concerning the loss of Karl Heinz Muller - killed 16.10.43

Hi Leo,

Thanks for this but do you know if he was lost over Russia or what other theatre of war his unit were based in at this time?

Rick
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Old 20th October 2021, 20:09
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Information concerning the loss of Karl Heinz Muller - killed 16.10.43

Hi Rick,

in the GQM loss return neither the loss location nor the cause of the loss are mentioned. Unfortunately I have no NVM. On 15 Oct 1943 the I./KG 6 belonged to the Luftflotte 3 and was based at Chièvres in Belgium.

Regards
Leo
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Old 20th October 2021, 20:21
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Information concerning the loss of Karl Heinz Muller - killed 16.10.43

Hi Rick,

according to the Luftwaffe Kracker archive on 15 Oct 1943 Hptm Waldecker became a POW after being shot down by a Mosquito of No 85 Sq, piloted by S/L Mcguire. He and Gefr Haupt bailed safely, but Uffz Müller and Ofw Hohmann were killed in the crash.

Regards
Leo
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Old 21st October 2021, 01:35
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: Information concerning the loss of Karl Heinz Muller - killed 16.10.43

Mostly the same info as from Rottler, but a few extra details.

Ju 188E-1, 260179, WALDECKER, Hptm. Helmut, , I., 3., KG 6, , 3E+FL, , , 15-Oct-43, Stkp. POW due to Luftkampf with Mosquito from 85 Sq. (S/L Maguire & Jones). B also POW, Bf & Bs KIA., F RK. Coded '3E+BL' per loss., Lfl.3/Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.22; Horn, Wir Flogen gen Westen, p.260; The Blitz, Then & Now, III, pgs.298, 300; Kaiser, Die Ritterkreuzträger der Kampfflieger, V.2, p.162-163, Kirton Creek, Henley, bei Ipswich, 100%, F, B Ogefr. Waldemar Haupt, Bf Uffz. Karl-Heinz Müller & Bs Ofw. Julius Hohmann, 23.55
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Old 21st October 2021, 18:49
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Information concerning the loss of Karl Heinz Muller - killed 16.10.43

Hi Rick,

on 15 Oct 1943 the I./KG 6 lost 3 Ju 188 E-1. In the GQM loss returns no crash locations are listed.
In the loss lists of "Wir flogen gen Westen" (www.denkmalproject.org) you find the crash locations
St Nicholas-at-Wade - Ju 188 E-1 260177 3E+HH 1./KG 6 Lt Geyer crew
Area Ipswich - Ju 188 E-1 260179 3E+BL 3./KG 6 Hptm Waldecker crew
southeast of Clacton-on-Sea - Ju 188 E-1 260173 3E+RH 1./KG 6 Lt Hayn Crew

Regards
Leo
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Old 23rd October 2021, 15:23
rickback4444 rickback4444 is offline
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Re: Information concerning the loss of Karl Heinz Muller - killed 16.10.43

Thanks everyone for the information - I have also found the reference in the Crash Archive books too
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