Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 23rd July 2011, 13:42
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,929
Laurent Rizzotti is on a distinguished road
Crash of Ju 52 off Norway on April 16-17, 1940

Hello,

Various internet sources say that the captain of the German cruiser Blücher, Kapitan zur See Heinrich Woldag, survived the sinking of his ship on 9 April 1940 in Oslo Fjord but was then lost in an air crash some days later.

Sources then differ, saying the crash was on 16 or 17 April and Woldag was on his way to Germany or back to Norway for the burial of his crew.

The most detailled source I find is in Norwegian: http://dt.no/nyheter/flymysterium-ut...ofte-1.3331503. A Google translation says the aircraft was a Ju 52 that crashed on 16 April in Oslo Fjord, killing 3, Woldag, the pilot, Walter Poplow, and a third unknow.

I have three Ju 52 losses in Norway for 16 April, one of Stab KG 26 wrecked on Sola airfield when a landing Ju 88 collided with it and the Ju52 WNr 6306 of 14./KGr zbV 1 that crashed in a cliff due to bad weather east of Egersund. The crew of the second is known and there is no Poplow or Woldag aboard. That leaves the third loss: a Ju 52 of KG zbV 1 lost south of Stavanger (so at sea) with 4 dead. No further details are known. Location is wrong for Woldag case, but number of crew could be OK (while the Norwegian article may be wrong: 2 crew and 1 passenger is a little too few for a Luftwaffe Ju 52).

I have also three Ju 52 losses for 17 April: a Ju 52 of Stab KG 30 destroyed on the ground at Sola airfield by the RAF, one of III./KGzbV 1 destroyed in a takeoff accident at Aalborg, Norway, and the Ju 52 WNr.2810 of III./KGr zbV1 that crashed on Langevannet Lake, SE of Kristiansand, Norway, killing 17 crew and passengers.

So either it was not a Ju 52, or it is one not in my list, or it is the Ju 52 of KG zbV 1 lost south of Stavanger on 16 April.

Has anyone a crew/passenger list for this Ju 52. Or the name of Poplow or Woldag aboard another aircraft lost in the area these days ?

Thanks in advance

Laurent
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 23rd July 2011, 14:48
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 3,211
Matti Salonen will become famous soon enough
Re: Crash of Ju 52 off Norway on April 16-17, 1940

I have the following, which might fit:
1940-04-16, 2./KGr.z.b.V. 105, Ju 52/3m, (Skagerrak), Unbekannt. Bruch 100 %.
Besatzung:
Ofw Kohle, Pius
Fw Maisch, Ernst
Fw Poplow, Walter
Alle von FFS C 4 und vermißt.

Because normally loss of passengers was not reported by the "owner" of the aircraft, Woldag could well have been in this plane. Unfortunately neither KGr.z.b.V. 105 nor FFS C 4 NVM contains details of the aircraft.

Matti
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 23rd July 2011, 15:37
Seaplanes Seaplanes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ski, Norway
Posts: 758
Seaplanes will become famous soon enough
Re: Crash of Ju 52 off Norway on April 16-17, 1940

Hi Matti and Laurent,

Matti, you have found the correct loss. It was Ju 52 (W.Nr. not known, possibly 6736) with St.kz. BA+KK lost on 16.4.40 en-route for Oslo Fornebu with Kpt.z.See Woldag on board. This according to the K.T.B. of K.Gr.z.b.V. 105. This unit was formed with aircraft and crews drawn from
Fl.Führ.Schule (C) 7 Finsterwalde, Fl.Führ.Schule (C) 4 Sprottau, Fl.Führ.Schule (C) 12 Prag-Rusin and Fl.Führ.Schule (C) 1 Sorau.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24th July 2011, 00:45
RT RT is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 3,630
RT is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Crash of Ju 52 off Norway on April 16-17, 1940

Hello ,

Is the Wn drawn from the STKZ ?? oder..

Rémi
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24th July 2011, 11:48
Seaplanes Seaplanes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ski, Norway
Posts: 758
Seaplanes will become famous soon enough
Re: Crash of Ju 52 off Norway on April 16-17, 1940

The Stammkennzeichen is from the KTB of K.Gr.z.b.V. 105. The Werk-nummer is from the LEMB Stammkennzeichen database where it is given with a questionmark, indicating that this is not confirmed in any way.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 25th July 2011, 11:58
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,929
Laurent Rizzotti is on a distinguished road
Re: Crash of Ju 52 off Norway on April 16-17, 1940

Thanks to all,

Seaplanes, does the KTB of K.Gr.z.b.V. 105 confirm that Woldag was the only passenger ?

Also as I said above, I have a Ju 52 of KG zbV 1 lost south of Stavanger on 16 April 1940 with 4 dead/missing. Has anyone the details of this loss ?

Thanks in advance
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 25th July 2011, 16:00
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 3,211
Matti Salonen will become famous soon enough
Re: Crash of Ju 52 off Norway on April 16-17, 1940

The following passengers were killed in this loss of 14./KG.z.b.V. 1 Ju 52/3m:
Albrecht, Kurt
Aschauer, Johann
Barthel, Gerhard
Berger, Martin
Fischer, Arno
Goedicke, Walter
Hebestreit, Kurt
Hesse, Rudolf
Hessenmüller, Heinrich
Höfer, Gerhard
Jäckel, Rolf
Wickenhöfer, Karl
Würtenbächer, Horst

Matti
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 25th July 2011, 21:17
RT RT is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 3,630
RT is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Crash of Ju 52 off Norway on April 16-17, 1940

Sure Laurent wouldn't expect so much, BA+KI is 6731 or 6739 , BA+KY an Ju87 BA+KZ an Do17

so...

Rémi
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26th July 2011, 20:59
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,929
Laurent Rizzotti is on a distinguished road
Re: Crash of Ju 52 off Norway on April 16-17, 1940

Hi to all,

Yes I did not except so much

Anyway I have in my files two Ju 52 of KG zbV 1 lost on 16 April 1940, the one of 14 Staffel on the cliff of which I knew only the crew list, thank for the passenger one, and another with no Staffel known and no crew known, just listed as being lost S of Stavanger with 4 dead/missing.

So either this is the same loss recorded twice, or there is another Ju 52 in the loss lists. But I think the former explanation is probably the right one.

On a related question, Seaplanes, can you check the diary of KGzbV 105 for 12 April 1940. I have an accident on take off from Fühlsbüttel airfield for a Ju 52 of this unit (D-AVMF, WNr. 000? ?10), but don't know the extent of damage.

Thanks in advance
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27th July 2011, 17:40
Tony Jones Tony Jones is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: West Wickham, Kent, UK
Posts: 263
Tony Jones
Re: Crash of Ju 52 off Norway on April 16-17, 1940

Laurent

D-AVMF was Ju 90 "Brandenburg" of DLH c/n 90-0010, it crashed due to icing at Brauna 8/11/40. It was noted with DLH 4/40

Tony
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940. Martin Gleeson Allied and Soviet Air Forces 23 23rd March 2020 22:36
Ju 52 crash with mechanic Ludwig Hain involved DB601E Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 6th December 2011 09:40
Ju 52 of Blindflugschule on floats? Hans Nauta Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 15 4th October 2009 01:41
Captured Arado Ar196 Norway April 1940 Brian Allied and Soviet Air Forces 0 18th December 2006 15:06
Damage to HMS Furious in april 1940 off Norway Darius Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 30th December 2005 21:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net