Ju 52 of Blindflugschule on floats?

[Hans Nauta]

Dear all,

Recently a picture of a Ju 52 on floats was sold on ebay. The original photo shows the markings which seems to be VB+UF.

According to the Stammkenzeichen database of the LEMB the VB+UF Wnr 6811 was a g4e See model of this Ju 52 and would have belonged to Blindfluschule 6.

The side windows on the photo are blinded, so this matches with versions used by a BFS, but BFS 6 was formed on 1st October 1940, while the photo has been taken on 28th June 1940.

Moreover, I can't imagine that a BFS would operate with a Ju 52 on floats?

Anyway, does the Ju 52 on attached pictures indeed represent a Ju 52 of BFS 6 (or its predecessing units) or did I make a mistake in the process of indentifying the Ju 52 on the picture?

I must admit I'm not too well informed about Ju 52 versions and its use, but I trust somebody might have a definite answer to my query.

Thanks in advance,
Hans Nauta

[RT]

Hello Hans

UF or OP , ??

Remi

[Peter D Evans]

By looking at the sources listed against VB+UF in the database, this points to a clear side on image on page 152 of "Warplanes of the Luftwaffe" by D.Donald [Aerospace, 1994]... but this is a Ju52/3mg7e and no floats are fitted. Another image of VB+UF also appears on page 106 of "Luftwaffe Codes, Markings and Units 1939-45" by B.Rosch [Schiffer, 1994] but this time wearing winter camouflage and the caption claiming that it was on a supply mission with 2./KGrzbV 9 in Russia during thre winter of 1942. Its worth adding that VB+OP as suggested by Remi is listed as a Fw58's with its source being "Die Flugzeugfuhrer-Ausbildung der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1935-45 Band 1". Perhaps this Ju52 was converted to a floatplane later on during its career?

Peter van Gogh visits here so he should be able to add comment as to where the Ju52/3m g4e, WNr.6811 and BFS 6 data were taken from.

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

[obdl3945]

Hi...

Apparently, VB+OP was a Focke-Wulf Fw58, and just for good measure, I checked VB+OF, but this was a Heinkel He45.

However, it seems that sometimes two aircraft ended up with the same code, for example, VB+PO was registered both for a Do17 and a Ju86.

All info from here: www.luftwaffe-experten.org/stammkennzeichen.html

Regards...

Paul

[Peter D Evans]

Thanks for that Paul... I was just checking the other options too! Of course, the database is far from correct so it may be that both VB+OP and VB+OF are incorrect. I'm just as interested as everybody else as to where the connection with BFS 6 has been obtained...

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

[Peter D Evans]

Just checked "Die Flugzeugfuhrer-Ausbildung der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1935-45 Band 1" by S.Carlsen & M.Meyer [VDM, 1998] and there is indeed a photo on page 273 of a Fw58 captioned as being coded VB+OP of FFS A/B 71 taken in Dec'41. I would add though that the photo is taken from the front/port angle and the code is far from conclusive...

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

[RT]

Maybe Hans, could hv some other element pledging for UF...

Rémi

[edNorth]

Hi Hans, Peter, Paul, Remi (all);

Have you checked code could be VB+UP (6821) ? Anyway the VB+Ua block, possibly only the latter part have nummerical order (after VB+UF or VB+UO) but those before possibly ´random´ issues (i.e. VB+UB was 6791) or with many civil examples ´in between´.

Anyway I see code possibilities then as (photo taken 28.06.40): VB+UF (6811?) or VB+UP (6821) - not VB+OF (stated He 45) and VB+OP (stated Fw 58) - although I see this one most possibly as VB+OP ...

I think version is possibly g4e or later. But I am no expert on Ju 52/3m designation but here is what I found somewhere years ago (source unk).

Ju 52/3m g3e 3 x BMW 132 A-2 : Bomber (1934)
Ju 52/3m g4e 3 x BMW 132 A-3 : Transport (1934)
Ju 52/3m g4e(MS) Minesweeper
Ju 52/3m g5e 3 x BMW 132 T-2 : ex- g4e See/Land (1939)
Ju 52/3m g5e(MS) Minesweeper
Ju 52/3m g6e 3 x BMW 132 T-2 : See/Land (1940)
Ju 52/3m g6e(MS) Minesweeper (1941)
Ju 52/3m g7e 3 x BMW 132 T-2 : Modified g5e
Ju 52/3m g8e 3 x BMW 132 T-2 / Z : Modified g6e
Ju 52/3m g8e(M) Minesweeper
Ju 52/3m g8e(E) Cargo Tp.
Ju 52/3m g8e(F) Paratrooper
Ju 52/3m g8e(H) Flying Classroom
Ju 52/3m g8e(N) Supply
Ju 52/3m g8e(R) Courier
Ju 52/3m g8e(S) Squadron Support
Ju 52/3m g9e 3 x BMW 132 Z : Glider Tug/Trop.Tp.
Ju 52/3m g10e 3 x BMW 132 Z : Cargo Tp. (1942)
Ju 52/3m g11e 3 x BMW 132 Z : Vinterized Tp.
Ju 52/3m g12e 3 x BMW 132 L : Cargo/Mail Tp.
Ju 52/3m g13e 3 x BMW 132 L : Cargo/Mail Tp.
Ju 52/3m g14e 3 x BMW 132 T/L : Armored Tp. (1943)

cheers
ed

[Hans Nauta]

Hello Remi, Peter, Paul and Ed,

Thanks for your comments and thoughts. Frankly, I read the code too as +OP, however the 'B' also resembles more an '8' due to the surface of the skin of the Ju 52, so I thougt the 'O' may have been in fact an 'U'.

Anyway, the Stammkenzeichen database was the only reference I had, so VB+UF was the nearest match in both markings and version of the Ju 52 which matches the one on the picture. Certainly when taking in account that the database lists the VB+UF as a 'See' version, so with floats.

Perhaps another lead to narrow down possibilities: the side windows are covered, does this indeed matches with the versions used by Blindflugschule (did the BFS have Ju 52 on floats, anyway?), or did ordinary transport versions also have blinded side windows?

Best wishes,
Hans Nauta

[Seaplanes]

In 1940 Luftwaffe did not have that many Ju 52 on floats. Most of them were massed together in April 1940 to take part of the assault on Norway. They formed 8./K.G.z.b.V. 108 and we are talking about a total of 12 Ju 52 (See). Most of Luftwaffes floatplane Ju 52's were conversions from landplanes.

One school that used the Ju 52 (See) was Fl. Waffenschule (See) at Bug auf Rügen and another was Fl. Waffenschule (See) at Parow. The only operational unit using Ju 52 (See) in 1940 was 1./K.Gr.z.b.V. 108 in Norway. This Staffel initially operated a mix of a few Ju 52 (See), some He 59 and He 60, and a solitary Do 24.