Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12th September 2006, 23:45
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hamburg / Germany
Posts: 451
Jochen Prien is an unknown quantity at this point
Spitfire losses January 22nd, 1943

Gentlemen,

John Foreman in his Fighter Command War Diaries, Vol. 3, p. 252, mentions the loss of two Spitfires of 331 Sqn. in combat with JG 1 off Westhhofd. A third Spitfire was a write off as Cat. E on this day ( although this a/c was later repaired and re-entered service ).

My question is: Can anybody confirm the two total losses of 331 Sqn. and can provide me with both the serial nos. of the two a/c and the names of the pilots ? Were they really lost in combat with JG 1 while escorting Mitchells on their mission to targets in Holland ?

Any lead would be much appreciated.

Regards

Jochen Prien
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 13th September 2006, 00:31
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,207
Laurent Rizzotti is on a distinguished road
Re: Spitfire losses January 22nd, 1943

Jochen, I think you misread Foreman's book. 331 Sqn had only one loss (Spitfire IX BS144 hit and returned to base one fire, CAt C then B, Lt. Svein Heglund safe) while the Germans claimed 3 kills. The claim/loss table for the day shows only one loss (Cat E) for the squadron.

Situation is complicated by the fact that St Omer and Ghent were raided at the same time. From German claims it seems to me that JG 26 opposed the St Omer raid while JG 1 intercepted the Holland raid. But it may be not so simple.

According to Tony Wood (to quote him: "These lists are my interpretations of "Allied Combats & Casualties" which were taken from the official RAF Fighter Command records held at PRO/Kew. The Lists or Tables give every Mission flown by Fighter Command, and later USAAF Fighter Command, from the end of the Battle of Britain [1.11.40] to the eve of the Invasion of Normandy [5.6.44] at present"), the RAF side of the show was following:

22. January 1943

R.A.F. Bomber Command Summary of Activity (Day). (1) 18 Ventura IIs despatched to Cherbourg/MAUPERTUS Airfield (10 Group Circus 14: 6/21, 9/464 & 3/487 Squadrons): 12 dropped 18 x 500-lb., 36 x 250-lb., 192 x 40-lb. HE-bombs, and 48 x 30-lb. IB from 9,000 feet. Bomb-strikes seen on S.E. Dispersal Area with evidence of fires and smoke, only Flak came from the western edge of the Airfield. 2 Venturas failed to return: 1 crashed. (2) 11 Bostons III despatched to Abbeville/DRUCAT Airfield (Circus 253 Part I: 11/107 Squadron): 11 Bostons dropped 18 x 500-lb., 144 x 40-lb. HE and 48 x 30-lb. IB from 10,000 feet. Smoke seen 200 yards from wood on a dispersal area, and near a wood on the northern side. (3) 12 Bostons III despatched to St.Omer/FORT ROUGE Airfield (Circus 253 Part II: 12/88 Squadron): 12 Bostons dropped 24 x 500-lb., 108 x 40-lb. HE and 48 x 30-lb. IB from 14,000 feet. Fires seen from airdrome buildings, and from hutted-camps on N.E. corner of the field. (4) 12 Mitchells II despatched to oil-refineries on Ghent-TERNEUZEN Canal (12 Group Ramrod: 6/98 & 6/180 Squadrons): 8 dropped 16 x 1000-lb. and 30 x 50-lb. bombs from 1,000-2,000 feet, observing many strikes. 3 Mitchells failed to return.
R.A.F. Fighter Command Summary of Activity (Day). (1) 13.15 hrs. 5 Spitfire squadrons supported 18 Venturas to Cherbourg/Maupertus on10 Group Circus 14. (2) 13.30 hrs. 7 Spitfire squadrons supported 11 Bostons to Abbeville/Drucat on Circus 253 Part I. (3) 14.30 hrs. 1 Spitfire squadron supported 8 Mitchells to Ghent-Terneuzen (see ACC report) on 12 Group Ramrod. (4) 14.30 hrs. 11 Spitfires quadrons, including 2 U.S. squadrons, supported 12 Bostons to St. Omer/Fort Rouge on Circus 253 Part II. Enemy-fighters encountered and combat ensued in which 2-0-0 Me 109s and 4-0-1 FW 190s were claimed. 3 Spitfires ftr, one pilot safe. (5) 16.30-17.50 hrs, 2 Spitfires attacked rail-traffic near Etretât, and MT on roads. Army Co-operation Command Activity (Day). 16 Mustangs Mk.I gave Escort-Support and Cover to 12 Mitchells targeted on the Ghent/Terneuzen Canal area. Enemy-fighters were encountered off the Dutch and Belgian coasts in which 1-1-0 FW was claimed: 4 Mustangs Mk.I failed to return, and 6 damaged Cat.B by Flak and Enemy-fighters.
R.A.F. Coastal Command Summary of Activity (Day). 12.34 hrs. 1 of 3 TB Hampdens escorted by 4 Beaufighters Mk.VI saw two MVs (each approx. 2000-tons) when 25 sm. S.S.W. STADLANDET. One torpedo was released from 80 feet on the leading MV: torpedo was seen to hit, but only a flash was observed due to bad visibility. Ref: A.M.D.R. of A. Ops. Resumé of Operations Air 22/367.
RAF 10 Group Circus 14
RAF 2 Group
Airfield MAUPERTUS
13.15z: 18/21, 464 & 487 Sqn. Ventura II
1 lost 2 Cat.E
RAF 2 Group Medium-Bomber:
RAF 2 Gp. 464 Sqn. 9 Ventura II 12.20- Circus 14 0 - 0 - 0 n/a 1 Cat.Em Lost Tasked: Maupertus
Cat.E 22.01.43 Sgt. H. Pilkington 2 Group 464 Sqn. Ventura II: AE 876 SB-N Flak: down Isle of Wight
Cat.E 22.01.43 Sgt. S.W. Wood: inj. 2 Group 464 Sqn. Ventura II: AE 876 SB-N Flak: down Isle of Wight
Cat.E 22.01.43 Sgt. G.W. Sivell 2 Group 464 Sqn. Ventura II: AE 876 SB-N Flak: down Isle of Wight
Cat.E 22.01.43 Sgt. H.S. Fidge 2 Group 464 Sqn. Ventura II: AE 876 SB-N Flak: down Isle of Wight
RAF 2 Gp. 464 Sqn. 9 Ventura II 12.20- Circus 14 0 - 0 - 0 n/a 1 Cat.Em Lost Tasked: Maupertus
Cat.Em 22.01.43 Sgt. N.E. Powell: kia 2 Group 464 Sqn. Ventura II: AJ188 SB-U Flak: off Cherbourg
Cat.Em 22.01.43 Sgt. P.A. Nodes: kia 2 Group 464 Sqn. Ventura II: AJ188 SB-U Flak: off Cherbourg
Cat.Em 22.01.43 Sgt. J. Dunne: kia 2 Group 464 Sqn. Ventura II: AJ188 SB-U Flak: off Cherbourg
Cat.Em 22.01.43 Sgt. S.J. Newton: kia 2 Group 464 Sqn. Ventura II: AJ188 SB-U Flak: off Cherbourg
RAF 2 Gp. 487 Sqn. 9 Ventura II 12.15- Circus 14 0 - 0 - 0 n/a 1 Cat.Em Lost Tasked: Maupertus
Cat.Em 22.01.43 F/O S.B. Perryman rnzaf 2 Group 464 Sqn. Ventura II: AE899 EG-O Flak: ditched Channel
Cat.Em 22.01.43 F/O K.W. Johns rcaf: inj 2 Group 464 Sqn. Ventura II: AE899 EG-O Flak: ditched Channel
Cat.Em 22.01.43 Sgt. B.D. Bridge 2 Group 464 Sqn. Ventura II: AE899 EG-O Flak: ditched Channel
Cat.Em 22.01.43 Sgt. S.J. Newton 2 Group 464 Sqn. Ventura II: AE899 EG-O Flak: ditched Channel
RAF 2 Group Circus 253/I
RAF 2 Group
Airfield Abbeville/DRUCAT
13.30 z: 11/107 Sqn. Bostons III

RAF 2 Group Circus 253/II
RAF 2 Group
Airfield St. Omer/FORT ROUGE
14.30 z: 12/88 Sqn. Bostons III
Escort: Debden
US VIII FC 334th Sqn. 12 Spitfire Vb 14.15-15.50 Circus 253 2 - 0 - 0 FW 190 No casualty L-BS: Fort Rouge
Claim 22.01.43 Lt. S.M. Anderson 4th FG 334th Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 FW 190 15.05 ca: W. Dunkirk
Claim 22.01.43 Lt. R.A. Boock 4th FG 334th Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 FW 190 15.05 ca: W. Dunkirk
US VIII FC 335th Sqn. 13 Spitfire Vb 14.10-15.50 Circus 253 1 - 0 - 1 FW 190 1 Cat.Em Flak L-BS: Fort Rouge
Cat.Em 22.01.43 2/Lt. Chester P. Grimm: kia 4th FG 335th Sqn. Spitfire Vb: AV Flak: Dunkirk-St. Omer
Claim 22.01.43 Maj. O. H. Coen 4th FG HQ Flt. 1 - 0 - 0 FW 190 15.05: W. Dunkirk
Claim 22.01.43 Lt. G.B. Fetrow 4th FG 335th Sqn. 0 - 0 - 1 FW 190 15.07: W. Dunkirk
US VIII FC 336th Sqn. 12 Spitfire Vb 14.15-15.50 Circus 253 1 - 0 - 0 FW 190 No casualty L-BS: Fort Rouge
Claim 22.01.43 Lt. J.A. Matthews 4th FG 336th Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 FW 190 15.15 ca: Mardyck-Dunkirk
Escort-Cover: Hornchurch
RAF 11 Gp. 350 Sqn. 12 Spitfire Vb 14.15-15.40 Circus 253 1 - 1 - 0 FW 190 1 Cat.Em Fighters L-BS: Fort Rouge
Cat.Em 22.01.43 Sgt. L.V. Flohimont: kia 11 Group 350 Sqn. Spitfire Vb: AR592 JG 26: N.W. St. Omer
Claim 22.01.43 Pilot 11 Group 350 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 FW 190 N.W. St. Omer
Claim 22.01.43 Pilot 11 Group 350 Sqn. 0 - 1 - 0 FW 190 N.W. St. Omer
High-Cover: North Weald
RAF 11 Gp. 331 Sqn. 12 Spitfire F.IX 14.10-16.00 Circus 253 2 - 0 - 0 Me 109G 1 Cat.Em Fighters L-BS: Fort Rouge
Cat.Em 22.01.43 Lt. S. Heglund: asr 11 Group 331 Sqn. Spitfire F.IX: BS144 FN-C FW 190s: Flushing
Claim 22.01.43 2/Lt. H. Grundt-Spang 11 Group 331 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109G 14.40: off Westhoofd
Claim 22.01.43 2/Lt. H. Grundt-Spang 11 Group 331 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109G 14.45: off Westhoofd
RAF 12 Group Ramrod 2
RAF 2 Group
Refineries GHENT-TERNEUZEN
14.30 z: 12/98 & 180 Sqn. Mitchells II: 3 lost
Close-Escort:
RAF 72 Gp. 169 Sqn. 8 Mustang I 13.55-16.00 Ramrod 0 - 0 - 0 n/a 2 Cat.Em Flak M-BS: Ghent
Cat.Em 22.01.43 S/Ldr. L.T. Wallace: mia 72 Group 169 Sqn. Mustang I: AP187 Flak: off Ostend
Cat.Em 22.01.43 F/O F.A.S. Patterson: mia 72 Group 169 Sqn. Mustang I: AL990 Flak: off Ostend
Diversion-Sweep:
RAF 72 Gp. 268 Sqn. 8 Mustang I 14.00-16.00 Ramrod 1 - 1 - 0 FW 190 2 Cat.Em Lost M-BS: Ghent
Cat.Em 22.01.43 F/O R.J.F. Mitchell: mia 72 Group 268 Sqn. Mustang I: AP234 Flak: off Knokke
Cat.Em 22.01.43 F/Lt. J.M. Macdonald: mia 72 Group 268 Sqn. Mustang I: AM178 FW 190s: off Knokke
Claim 22.01.43 F/O A.G. Bird 72 Group 268 Sqn. ½ - 0 - 0 FW 1909 14.55 ca: off Knokke
Claim 22.01.43 Sgt. F.J. Barnes 72 Group 268 Sqn. ½ - 0 - 0 FW 1909 14.55 ca: off Knokke
Claim 22.01.43 F/O A.G. Bird 72 Group 268 Sqn. 0 - ½ - 0 FW 1909 14.55 ca: off Knokke
Claim 22.01.43 Sgt. F.J. Barnes 72 Group 268 Sqn. 0 - ½ - 0 FW 1909 14.55 ca: off Knokke
Medium-Bomber:
RAF 2 Gp. 98 Sqn. 4 Mitchell II 13.51- Ramrod 0 - 0 - 0 n/a 1 Cat.Em Lost Tasked: Ghent-Terneuzen
Cat.Em 22.01.43 P/O R.D. Woods: kia 2 Group 98 Sqn. Mitchell II: FL693 VO-M Flak: Bassevelde
Cat.Em 22.01.43 Sgt. H.F. Barber: kia 2 Group 98 Sqn. Mitchell II: FL693 VO-M Flak: Bassevelde
Cat.Em 22.01.43 F/O L.V. Carrington: kia 2 Group 98 Sqn. Mitchell II: FL693 VO-M Flak: Bassevelde
Cat.Em 22.01.43 F/O P.G. Solon: kia 2 Group 98 Sqn. Mitchell II: FL693 VO-M Flak: Bassevelde
RAF 2 Gp. 180 Sqn. 4 Mitchell II 13.55- Ramrod 0 - 0 - 0 n/a 1 Cat.Em Lost Tasked: Ghent-Terneuzen
Cat.Em 22.01.43 W/Cdr. C.C. Hodder afc: kia 2 Group 180 Sqn. Mitchell II: FL212 EV-A Flak: off Ostend
Cat.Em 22.01.43 F/Lt. R. Watkin: kia 2 Group 180 Sqn. Mitchell II: FL212 EV-A Flak: off Ostend
Cat.Em 22.01.43 Sgt. H. Liddell: kia 2 Group 180 Sqn. Mitchell II: FL212 EV-A Flak: off Ostend
Cat.Em 22.01.43 F/O R.H. Longhorn dfm: kia 2 Group 180 Sqn. Mitchell II: FL212 EV-A Flak: off Ostend
Cat.Em 22.01.43 P/O M.G. Coyle dfm: kia 2 Group 180 Sqn. Mitchell II: FL212 EV-A Flak: off Ostend
RAF 2 Gp. 180 Sqn. 4 Mitchell II 13.55- Ramrod 0 - 0 - 0 n/a 1 Cat.Em Lost Tasked: Ghent-Terneuzen
Cat.Em 22.01.43 P/O W.H. Cappelman dfm: kia 2 Group 180 Sqn. Mitchell II: FL678 EV-J FW 190: off Ostend
Cat.Em 22.01.43 W/O R.C. Brown: kia 2 Group 180 Sqn. Mitchell II: FL678 EV-J FW 190: off Ostend
Cat.Em 22.01.43 P/O J.L. Leigh: kia 2 Group 180 Sqn. Mitchell II: FL678 EV-J FW 190: off Ostend
Cat.Em 22.01.43 P/O D.J. Murray: kia 2 Group 180 Sqn. Mitchell II: FL678 EV-J FW 190: off Ostend
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 13th September 2006, 14:44
odybvig odybvig is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 128
odybvig
Re: Spitfire losses January 22nd, 1943

Hello

The ORb for 331 Sqn can be downloaded from here:
http://presentations.uib.no/pls/port...ABELL_910.show


Best
Olve Dybvig
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 13th September 2006, 15:49
Wim de Meester Wim de Meester is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 78
Wim de Meester is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Spitfire losses January 22nd, 1943

Mr Prien

I mailed my concept "22 January 1943" about the airwar over Zeeland directly to you.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13th September 2006, 21:51
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hamburg / Germany
Posts: 451
Jochen Prien is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Spitfire losses January 22nd, 1943

Gentlemen,

as Laurent Rizzotti quite rightly put it, I have misread the table in John Foreman's FC War Diary; what I took for Spitfire losses were in fact claims of 331 Sqn. Thank you for taking your time to set matters straight and especially to you, Wim de Meester, for your elaborate reply. I'll try my best to read my sources more thoroughly before asking you again for your assistance.

Regards

Jochen Prien
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 14th September 2006, 01:35
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 1,985
Franek Grabowski
Re: Spitfire losses January 22nd, 1943

Jochen
If you need to verify some Spitfire losses, it is not a problem, drop a line. Not at the moment, however, as we(!) are trying to make a Spitfire flyable to get her back to Britain. We have a perfect photo documentation of how to replace CSU oil pipes.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thunderbolts and Mustangs versus the Jagdwaffe (split topic) Ruy Horta Allied and Soviet Air Forces 98 9th August 2007 16:22
Soviet air force losses 1941-1945 Six Nifty .50s Allied and Soviet Air Forces 12 15th May 2005 17:57
Luftwaffe fighter losses in Tunisia Christer Bergström Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 47 14th March 2005 04:03
56th FG - friendly fire case on 4 May 1943 - info needed Lagarto Allied and Soviet Air Forces 28 12th March 2005 23:33
Losses of III/JG2 January 1943 to October 1943 . infos needs heinz Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 12th February 2005 18:56


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2007, 12oclockhigh.net