Livery of a 23 squadron mosquito in jan. 1944

[gilles collaveri]

To build an accurate model, I look for the camouflage of a Mosquito of Squadron 23, in 1944.

More precisely, the A/C concerned is the Mosquito VI HJ788 "YP-F" piloted by Alastair Lawson, that shot down a JU88 above Toulouse on 6 Jan. 1944;

I have contradictory info: pictures from IWM show black under and brown/green above, but I heard that the MK VI were all green...

what is your opinion ? Any profile to suggest me ?

Thanks in advance

GC

[MW Giles]

Light grey overall and green camouflage on upper surfaces in Bomber Command - never brown, ugh


https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gall...osquito-fb-vi/

Martin

[Graham Boak]

Not Bomber Command but night fighters in the Med. I recall this from a book including a history of 23 Sq. This had colour profile showing grey/brown uppers, and I assume this was taken from a photo later reproduced in Roger Freeman's collection of RAF colour photos. Presumably this is the IWM one you mention. However I think that this is an example of either dodgy reproduction of the standard green, or the severe effect of hot sun on the green turning it towards the brown. If you choose to represent this in a model then the Medium Sea Grey was also bleached

[bearoutwest]

You mean this photo, Graham?


https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205188650


From the IWM online collection, complete with dirty brownish green upper colour, circa June 1943.



...geoff

[Buckeye30]

Air Ministry Order A.1377/42 (24.12.42) replaced Special Night overall for night fighters with Dark Green / Sea Grey Medium uppers, Sea Grey Medium undersides. This was an amendment to AMO.664/42 of 2.7.42.
Intruders retained Night undersides as specified on 8.10.42 (AMO.1096/42). Codes in Dull Red for both duties. Serials should have been Dull Red but most seem to have been replaced by Night.

Nick

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Wing Palette do have a YP*D, serial PZ170 with undersides with black paint, with 100 Group...so, maybe somewhere mid 1944 onwards the Air Ministry Order was supplemented by another one?
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/b/77/9/6#52

If memory does not fail me, some examples of 100 Group Mosquitos with black undersurfaces can be seen on references books (about the Mosquito). Sadly I do not have a single one at hand now.

NICK, do you know if there was another AMO about the machines of 100 Group (141, 157, 85, 96 Squadrons, etc??)

Adriano

[Buckeye30]

Gilles. 23 Sqn. was at Alghero on Sardinia in Jan. 1944 on intruder missions and their Mk. VIs would have Night undersides ( HJ675 YP-V and YP-D PZ170 had the black low down on the fuselage, red codes, night serial, SGM fin and spinners).
Their was no special directions for 100 Group camouflage, the orders for intruders and night fighters as above but as most Mosquitos were on bomber escort Night unders were more common.

AMO.864/44 ( 7.9.44) cancelled previous ones and confirmed camouflage schemes; they were laid down in AP.2656A. Oddly codes for intruders at home and abroad specified Sky but apparently not taken up, Dull Red continuing.
Nick

[Graham Boak]

Geoff, I cannot lay my hands on my copy of Freeman, but that looks to be much the same as I remember. If not the same photo then one from the same session. Except that the printing makes the DG appear greener than on the one I saw: colour printing is wonderful but not sadly open to variation.

[bearoutwest]

Graham,
I tend to think that the original (if photographically printed in 1943-44) might be the "truest" colours of the time. Though that being said, we are also viewing a scan (even if officially sanctioned) and viewing it on colour computer screens with self-adjusted preferences - so much opportunity for colour variation between 1943-oringinal colour and our eyes.


Still dirty brown green might be an interesting weathering effect. Also consider the browner pigments in the yellow tips of the propellers.


...geoff

[Graham Boak]

OK, found Freeman (exactly where it should have been, of course) and the printing is greener than I remembered. The book also has two in-flight photos of these aircraft showing standard intruder colours.

I still reckon the DG faded to brown - sometimes - but this does give the modeller options for a fresh or well-used scheme. The photos are Mk.IIs and the example mentioned is a Mk.VI, so probably still in fresh-ish colours?