Dual P-47 Crash 4 October 1944 Near Munstereifel, Germany

[pdame141]

All:

With apologies for the mis-posting in the post-war forum a moment ago, I'm seeking information on the crash site(s) of two P-47s of the 397 FS/368 FG that were lost in a mid-air collision during a combat mission on 4 October 1944 in the vicinity of Munstereifel, Germany.

Capt. William Gibson was KIA and his left side wingman Lt. Odell Dustin parachuted clear of his a/c and was captured. Lt. Dustin was a POW at Stalag Luft I.

According to a statement by Capt. Gibson's right side wingman in MACR 9643 (Dustin's MACR is 9642), the flight was climbing through bad weather when they hit a violent updraft at which time Gibson and Dustin collided. The collision occurred at an altitude of around 6,000 ft.

Is there a record of the crash site of either or both P-47? To my knowledge, Capt. Gibson's remains were never recovered. Lt. Dustin was flying a P-47D-16, no. 42-76115 coded D3-X, which was my Great Uncle's assigned a/c.

Thanks as always for any leads.

Best regards,
Paul Dame

[Laurent Rizzotti]

MACR 9642 has included the German crash report J2203 (see http://www.fold3.com/image/38219164/), that gives the crash location as on the road Schmidt-Kummerscheid.
The document included in the MACR is a translation and I believe the second place to be Kommerscheidt, 1 mile NW of Schmidt.

The location is roughly 30-40 km WNW from Bad Munstereifel, but the loss location given in the MACRs were often wrong by more than this distance. German crash reports are more reliable.

[Tony Kambic]

Here's what Short-Stuff has in his database:

42-76115

P-47D-16-RE 368th 397th D3-X
"KIT-HAN-NE / VERA MAE" - Pilote : Edward W. Dame

MACR 9642 - 04/10/44 vers Schmidt (All.) - Pilote : Odell V. Dustin - POW
Collision aérienne avec le P-47 42-26937

[pdame141]

Laurent & Tony:

Thanks for your replies. I did a little more digging and it appears that Capt. Gibson was recovered and his remains repatriated. He is buried in Saint Clair Cemetery in Greensburg, Pennsylvania. See http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...&PIpi=52597103.

Interesting that there is no corresponding German crash report attached to Gibson's MACR. Given the nature of the accident as described in Lt. Murphy's witness statement, it seems possible that Gibson's plane came down some distance from Dustin's.

Thanks again for your replies.

Best regards,
Paul Dame

[Tony Kambic]

Small world sometimes. The pilot of my Uncle's B-24 friendly-fire downing is buried in a cemetery about 2 miles from the St. Clair Cemetery where Capt. Gibson is buried.

Tony

[Horst Weber]

Originally Posted by pdame141

All:

With apologies for the mis-posting in the post-war forum a moment ago, I'm seeking information on the crash site(s) of two P-47s of the 397 FS/368 FG that were lost in a mid-air collision during a combat mission on 4 October 1944 in the vicinity of Munstereifel, Germany.

Capt. William Gibson was KIA and his left side wingman Lt. Odell Dustin parachuted clear of his a/c and was captured. Lt. Dustin was a POW at Stalag Luft I.

According to a statement by Capt. Gibson's right side wingman in MACR 9643 (Dustin's MACR is 9642), the flight was climbing through bad weather when they hit a violent updraft at which time Gibson and Dustin collided. The collision occurred at an altitude of around 6,000 ft.


Good evening
Is there a record of the crash site of either or both P-47? To my knowledge, Capt. Gibson's remains were never recovered. Lt. Dustin was flying a P-47D-16, no. 42-76115 coded D3-X, which was my Great Uncle's assigned a/c.

Thanks as always for any leads.

Best regards,
Paul Dame

Good evening Paul !

The case of Lt. Dustin is quite clear. He came down at a road between Schmidt and Kommerscheid, which is only about 1/2 km between the close nearby villages. The German J 2203 report mentions that. A pencilwritten footnote has in this report the name "Dustin".

Capt. Gibson may have found his death either in Germany or in Belgium. His first grave, after he was recovered by an Army Grave Registration Team, was the American Military Cemetary Neuville-en-Condroz, Liege, Belgium. Later, he was reburied to PA.

In this case, you should order the Individual Deceased Personell File (IDPF) of this officer. The information of his burial site in Germany could help researchers in Germany or Belgium, to find out an event, which could match to your question.

All the best !

Horst Weber

[pdame141]

Tony - it definitely is a small world. My Great Uncle was from Kittanning, PA, which is about 40 miles from Greensburg.

Horst - thanks as always for your helpful reply! I imagine Dustin's/my Great Uncle's a/c was removed shortly after the war and scrapped as it landed in or near the roadway. In keeping with the small world theme, I was reading a 2010 article from the Spangdahlem AF Base news regarding recovery of a P-47 wreck near Bitburg that quoted you. I have some familiarity with the general area as My Uncle was an Army Lt. Col. stationed in Germany for many years, during which time my Aunt & Uncle lived in Sembach.

[pdame141]

Another interesting fact about Capt. Gibson is that it doesn't appear that he was recovered until well after the war ended.

In a 1946 Honor Roll of Pennsylvania war dead compiled by the War Department, Capt. Gibson's status is listed as "FOD" for "Finding of Death." See http://www.fold3.com/image/310764002...William+Gibson.

This administrative category under federal law was for missing personnel "in whose cases there is an absence of presumptive proof of continued existence." Seems unlikely he would be in this category if he had been identified and interred at Liege by the cutoff date for the War Dead report - 31 January 1946.