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  #1  
Old 24th September 2016, 12:30
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Tainan Ku questions

Hello

in Bloody Shambles ( 1992) already!
24/1/42 Java(Samarinda II)

"Two Brewsters shot down and three Glenn Martins strafed and shot down as they were landing by 6 A6M of Tainan Ku".
apart Shizuyoshi Nishiyama, who are the five others pilots?

I wonder what happened to Nishiyama, no sign of him in New Guinea/Rabaul/Guadalcanal operations.

10/12/41=1 P-40
24/1/42 = 1 Brewster
2/2/42 = 1 Brewster
23/2/42 = 1 Do-24
25/2/42 = 4 P-40 shared

no trace of him in the list of "ace"

best regards
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  #2  
Old 21st May 2017, 04:33
JYoung JYoung is offline
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Re: Tainan Ku questions

According to Tainan Flying Group kôdôchôsho:
On 24 Jan. 1942 the 5 other pilots were LT Akira WAKAO, PO2 Susumu ISHIHARA, WO Senri ISOZAKI, PO1 Toyo’o SAKAI, Seaman 1C Haruo FUJIBAYASHI,

Nishiyama was transferred to the Sixth Flying Group after April 1942. From November 1942 6th Flying Group was changed its name to 204 Flying Group.

PO3 Nishiyama’s score according to kôdôchôshos:
> Tainan Flying Group
10 Dec. 1941: shot down 1 enemy aircraft.
13 Dec. 1941: destroyed 12 aircraft on the ground (shared with 15 pilots including him).
24 Jan. 1942: shot down 1 fighter alone; destroyed 3 twin-engine bombers on the ground (shared with 6 pilots incl. him).
3 Feb. 1942: shot down 1 Buffalo (shared with LTJG SASAI and PO2 ISHIHARA).
20 Feb. 1942: destroyed 5 B-17s and 1 twin-engine aircraft on the ground (shared with 9 pilots incl. him).
22 Feb. 1942: destroyed 12 aircraft on the ground (shared with 6 pilots incl. him).
23 Feb. 1942: shot down 1 enemy flying boat.
25 Feb. 1942: shot down 8 P-40s (incl. 4 probables) shared with 6 pilots incl. him.
27 Feb. 1942: shot down 1 four-engine flying boat and 1 twin-engine flying boat (probable), both shared with 9 pilots incl. him; destroyed 10 aircraft on the ground shared with 9 pilots.
2 Mar. 1942: destroyed 1 float-plane, 1 four-engine flying boat and 1 two-engine flying boat on the water shared with 9 pilots incl. him.

> The 6th Flying Group
28 Sep. 1942: shot down 1 F4F.

>The 204 Flying Group
14 Nov. 1942: shot down 2 SBDs (incl. 1 probable) shared with 6 pilots incl. him.
2 Jan. 1943: shot down 1 F4F shared with PO3 Hikoharu KAWADA.
15 Jan. 1943: shot down 2 F4Fs, and 1 P-39(probable).
23 Jan. 1943: shot down 5 F4Fs (incl.1 probable) shared with 15 pilots incl. him.
25 Jan. 1943: shot down 1 F4F shared with 22 pilots incl. him.
1 Feb. 1943: shot down 4 B-17s shared with 12 pilots incl. him.
4 Feb. 1943: shot down 4 enemy aircraft with 12 pilots incl. him.
3 Mar. 1943: MIA during a convoy escort mission.

His total air victories: 8.75, plobable: 2.01, and destroyed on the surface: 5.41

Source: “Tainankû hikôkitai kôdôchôsho (Tainan Flying Group preliminary combat reports)” Japan Center for Asian Historical Records < https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/aj/meta/detail-en >, reference code: C08051601300, 14th, 15th, 29th, 30th images; C08051601600, 24th, 25th images; C08051601900, 10th, 14th images; C08051602000, 30th, 31st images; C08051602100, 1st, 2nd, 11th, 30th, 31st, 45th, 46th images; C08051602200, 11th, 12th images.
“6 kû hikôkitai kôdôchôsho (6th Flying Group preliminary combat reports)”, reference code: C08051629000, 5th, 6th images.
“204 kû hikôkitai kôdôchôsho (204 Flying Group preliminary combat reports)”, reference code: C08051653800, 18th, 19th images; C08051654000, 4th, 5th images; C08051654100, 1st, 2nd, 27th, 28th, 34th, 35th images; C08051654400, 2nd, 3rd, 9th, 10th, 48th, 49th images.
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  #3  
Old 21st May 2017, 15:44
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Re: Tainan Ku questions

Hi JYoung

Thank's for your detailed answer.
Effectively,I have a Nishiyama,first name SHIZUKI,in 6° and 204° Kokutai,but Nishiyama SHIZUYOSHI with Tainan Ku and I thought it was two different "guys'.....error or confusion between first names?

Some additional details concerning the claims:
24/01/42:
It seems that the claims for 3 twin-engine bombers destroyed on the ground have been under-evaluated (for once!),they were shot down (3 Glenn Martin of 1-VIG-II) during their final landing approaches.

03/02/42:
I have also 02/02/42....error dates?

27/02/42:
the twin-engine flying boat claimed prob. was real (catalina Y-65 of GVT-5)
but was also claimed by 6 pilots of 3°Kokutai.
among the 9 pilots (Tainan Ku) who claimed the two flying boats,I have only Lt Yukio MAKIN and Toyo-o SAKAI:have you the 6 others?

28/09/42:
unfounded:no known US losses

14/11/42:
unfounded:no known US losses

Best Regards
Michel
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Old 23rd May 2017, 08:28
JYoung JYoung is offline
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Re: Tainan Ku questions

Hi Michel

>Nishiyama’s given name
In Japanese documents, names are written with Chinese characters. In Japanese, most of Chinese characters have more than one pronunciation. Thus Chinese characters of Nishiyama’s given name have lots of choice in pronunciation including “Shizuki” and “Shizuyoshi.”

I do not know the correct pronunciation of his given name (strictly speaking there is possibility that his family name was not pronounced “Nishiyama.” But in my experience, the Chinese characters of his family name are hundred to one pronounced “Nishiyama”). Thus those Japanese names’ pronunciation which I gave in my previous answer were mere a kind of my opinion which I think those Chinese characters are usually pronounced.

On the other hand, the same Chinese characters are written as Nishiyama’s given name in all kôdôchôshos of Tainan, 6th, and 204th Flying Groups. It is safe to say those Nishiyamas were the same person.

>27 Feb. 1942 the other 6 pilots
Correction: LT Yukio MAKI (not MAKIN)
The other 6: Seaman 1C SHIMADA (I cannot read his given name), LTJG Jun-ichi SASAI, PO1 (PO2 is wrong in my previous answer) Susumu ISHIHARA, WO Senri ISOZAKI, PO1 Otojirô SAKAGUCHI, PO3 Kiyotake FUKUYAMA
Source: C08051602100, 45th, 46th images.

> Other questions
I am sorry that I do not look over more than kôdôchôshos. I only say “Kôdôchôshos say that ···”, and I do not think the kôdôchôshos are 100 % right.

Sorry for my poor English.
Best regards,
JY
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Old 23rd May 2017, 17:06
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Re: Tainan Ku questions

Hi JY

Ok,your say are clear,especially since I sought only one Nishiyama,first name SHIZUKI 54th class (May 1941;Oita air group graduate)

1) of course,I wanted to talk about Maki(typing error on my part)
2) first name Mifukaza for Shimada
3)very interesting about 24/01/42,especially on Ishihara and Sakai Toyo'o which leads me to ask this question in relation to Sakai Toyo's:

on 13/01/42,the different sources at my disposal are quite confusing because of the presence of two Sakai (Toyo'o and Toshiyuki) in the same action:
I summarize-Firstly:
Two Glenn Martin claimed by Sakai Toyo'o and another (prob.) by Nishioka Tomatsu (confirmed by Dutch).
Then another Glenn Martin by Sakai TOSHIYUKI (alone) and one shared by six pilots (incl.Sakai TOSHIYUKI,Nishioka Tomatsu and Sakai TOYO'O ??) also confirmed by Dutch.

I tried the site in your post but failed! and you?

Michel
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Old 26th May 2017, 15:51
JYoung JYoung is offline
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Re: Tainan Ku questions

Hi Michel

> Seaman 1C “Mifukaza” SHIMADA
Your Japanese is excellent!! I did not think of that pronunciation. Additionally, in my experience “Mifukazu” is better to suit the Chinese characters of SHIMADA’s given name than “Mifukaza.”

> 13 Jan. 1942 air combat from the kôdôchôsho’s view
Tainan Air Group carried out air patrols over a convoy anchorage and Tarakan airfield during day time. The 3rd shift (PO1 Toyo-o SAKAI, PO2 Tamotsu(not Tomatsu) NISHIOKA and PO3 Toshiyuki ICHIKI) took off 0930 hrs. (“I” time = GMT + 9 hrs.). At 1120 hrs. over the convoy anchorage they intercepted three twin-engine bombers who were attacking convoy. SAKAI shot down two of them, NISHIOKA shot down one but probable. They returned to the base at 1335 hrs.

The 4th shift (LTJG Katsutoshi KAWAMADA, PO2 Hideo IZUMI and PO3 Shôsaku MINATO) took off 1100 hrs. At 1400 hrs. over the convoy anchorage they intercepted three twin-engine bombers with the 5th shift. They shot down one bomber shared with the 5th shift. Kôdôchôsho does not describe when the 4th shift returned to the base.

The 5th shift (PO1 Toshiyuki SAKAI, PO2 Gisuke ARITA and PO3 Takeo KUME) took off 1230 hrs. At 1410 hrs. they joined the air combat with the 4th shift, and shot down one shared with the 4th shift. PO1 SAKAI alone shot down another one. They returned to the base at 1715 hrs.

Source: “Tainankû hikôkitai kôdôchôsho” Japan Center for Asian Historical Records < https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/aj/meta/detail-en > reference code: C08051601500, 50th, 51st images.

> My post box
There’s nothing wrong.

Best regards,
JY
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  #7  
Old 26th May 2017, 22:07
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Re: Tainan Ku questions

Excellent and truly accurate!

In addition:
the claims have been UNDERESTIMATED;4+1 prob.(6 real)
The dutch lost at first 3 Glenn Martin of 1-VIG-II (Sgt W.Calicher,Lt B.Diepering,Lt L.N.Volckert,all killed with their crews)

SAKAI Toyo-o=2 Glenn
NISHIOKA Tamotsu=1 Glenn prob. (his prob.claim is real)

In a second time 3 more of 7° Afdeling were lost (Sgt Mag W.G.C Tinkelenberg,Adj K.Troost and Lt J.A.Butner crashed)

Best Regards
Michel
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