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  #691  
Old 19th February 2015, 13:52
Darius Darius is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi,

very fine Information about the convoy vs aircraft incidents.

I have here to add this one red-on-red accident to the forumlist (hoping, this wasn´t told here before).

Source: DEFE 3/835, ZIP/ZTPI 3353:

Quote:
TOO 1850/2030/15/2/41
TOI 2308/0528/16/2/41

PATRAS TO ROME
IMPORTANT

FROM: NAVAL COMMAND PELOPONNESE, PATRAS

3000 FURTHER TO MY 65156 OF 15/12. I REPORT THAT TODAY AT ABOUT 1400 HOURS 7 GERMAN AIRCRAFT FLEW OVER THE ROADSTED AT ARGOSTOLI, AT LOW ALTITUDE, MAKING RECOGNITION IN TIME IMPOSSIBLE. AS THE DIRECTION WAS THE SAME AT THAT FROM WHICH ENEMY AIRCRAFT USUALLY COME THE A.A. DEFENCES ENTERED INTO ACTION AND CEASED FIRE AS SOON AS RECOGNITION TOOK PLACE. ONE AIRCRAFT WAS HIT AND LANDED NEAR PIRGOS WITHOUT INJURING ANYONE. IN ORDER TO AVOID THE REPETITION OF REGRETTABLE INCIDENTS IT IS NECESSARY TO COMMUNICATE URGENTLY TO THE GERMAN AIR FORCE THE PROHIBITION TO FLY OVER ARGOSTOLI, NAVARINO, PAPAS, PATRAS, AND THE CORINTH CANAL. MESSAGE ENDS.

(DEPT.NOTE: 65156 NOT RECIVED)
Kind regards

Darius
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  #692  
Old 19th February 2015, 15:10
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Many thanks, Darius

Great stuff. Very much appreciated.

Cheers
Brian
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  #693  
Old 25th February 2015, 17:30
Tony Kambic Tony Kambic is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

From 57th FG history:

MACR 3990 24-MAR-44, Cover flight of 4 P-47s attacked by Spitfire (Mk 8 ? ) bringing down one P-47 (42-75636) and pilot Lt. Coughlin perished. 3 miles west of Tiber River.
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  #694  
Old 15th April 2015, 19:27
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

48 cases of friendly fire (from the air and from ships) against US submarines in the Pacific:
http://www.subsowespac.org/the-patro...ncidents.shtml
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  #695  
Old 15th April 2015, 21:02
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi Laurent

I can only say 'WOW'!!

Great stuff - many thanks!

Cheers
Brian
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  #696  
Old 9th May 2015, 09:47
Observer1940 Observer1940 is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer1940 View Post
Hello Brian
One for your book, it now appears from my research that one of the two RAF Whitleys which crashed into a balloon 15th August 1940 near Eastleigh was involved in a friendly fire incident before the collision and crash.

14-15 August 1940 Headquarters No.4 Group

Two aircraft fouled balloon cables and crashed on return, one aircraft shot at by friendly aircraft but no damage. The other aircraft having engine and intercom trouble.

I have traced the "other aircraft" okay in the Squadron and Station ORBs and also the No.4 Group Signal in the appendices regarding Whitley P4982 which hit the balloon barrage of 956 Squadron Langley, HQ Colnbrook.

Whitley P5044
However, the Signal reporting Whitley P5044 is missing in the No.4 Group Appendices.
Above quote shortened.

Going through the paperwork sent to the family back in 1940 and my Grandfather's brother has written to the RAF Records Office to discover more about the circumstances, relating to the loss of his brother Sgt Claude L. G. Hood.

The letter acknowledgement from the RAF Records Office regarding the Whitley of Captain Stenhouse, has been sent with the Service Number reference of another Airman (not one of the Whitley crew), saying that they will get the Squadron to respond direct. Shortly afterward, a letter arrives, from 77 Squadron, RAF Topcliffe signed by F/Lt. D Goudie (or F/Lt. O Goudie), about hitting a balloon cable.

Fire in Air.
The term 'fire on impact' does not always mean when hitting the ground, in other accidents impact means the collision with trees, cable etc. Therefore, 'Fire in Air' suggests on fire before impact with the cable.

Also locally although they knew a balloon collision was involved, locals were told Whitley P5044 had been hit by enemy action and the daughter of the adjacent house observed events after the crash. One crew member is recorded differently in The Times Casualty List.

However, a check of the files in AIR 14 indicates that none of the No. 4 Group 22 Whitleys were lost due to enemy action on that Op. The No. 4 Group ORB only refers to a friendly fire incident.

This accident is also one of the so called balloon collisions, which does not have a surviving Balloon Centre & Balloon Command written report in the files.

Anyway, regarding this letter being sent to our family later in 1940, off the file of another RAF Serviceman's reference, I have traced this number (and confirmed using AIR 78) to another pilot.

Research is continuing.

Regards Mark

Last edited by Observer1940; 10th May 2015 at 08:47.
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  #697  
Old 15th May 2015, 17:16
Darius Darius is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hello,

no time for searching ;-)

KTB Skl for 23.05.1944
Quote:
In der Nacht zum 23. schossen MS-Boote niedrig fliegendes Flugzeug vor Le Havre ab, später als eigenes Flugzeug festgestellt, hatte zu spät ES geschossen. Ein Mann gerettet.
You know the type & unit of this aircraft?

Greetings

Darius
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  #698  
Old 6th July 2015, 18:18
baxterwood baxterwood is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

I am trying to find information about a friendly fire incident during which my late father's C.O. was killed, maybe someone could help.

He was;

Christopher James Croasdale Bowen, B. 1915 New Zealand.

Major, 612 F.S. R.E. 11th Armoured Division, 1941-44 KIA 1.9.44 Harbarcq, France.

From CWGC;

BOWEN, CHRISTOPHER JAMES CROASDAILE Rank: Major. Service No: 63533. Date of Death: 01/09/1944. Age: 29.
Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Offr. Cdg. 612 Field Sqn.
Grave Reference: Plot 4. Row AA. Grave 1. Cemetery: AUBIGNY COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION.
Additional Information:B.A. (Cantab.). Son of Charles Henry Croasdaile Bowen and of Frances Sybil Bowen (nee Danson), of Selborne, Hampshire; husband of Helen Florence Anderton Bowen (nee Lyon), of Selborne.


The entry for the Field Squadron War Diary for 1.9.44 reads;

Harbarcq. 1.9.1944. 1900 hrs (approx.) Maj. Bowen set out for Div. H.Q.to visit C.R.E. at Aubigny 3408 en route his Jeep was attacked by Br. fighter aircraft. Maj. Bowen was killed. Profound shock to the whole Sqn which he had commanded for almost 3 years (since October 1941)

I have located some more details from a French village website for Aubigny, amongst which the attackers were 'two aggressive Spitfires' however it would be helpful if I could narrow down the A/C operations for that day. I do realise this might well be a big ask and may well mean I need to check some Ops Diaries at Kew, I live in Yorkshire too, but I really have no idea where to start I might just end up groping in the 'dark'!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Peter
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  #699  
Old 6th July 2015, 22:00
Allan125 Allan125 is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hello Peter

this is a similar incident, described in "The Black Bull" by Patrick Delaforce. "The cavalry 'gallop' continued. After sleep, replenishment of petrol, rations and mail, the objective for 1 September was to be Aubigny, 10 miles north-west of Arras, some 33 miles north-east of Amiens....I just got to a firing position on high ground near Estree when the engine conked [As Echelon arrived to fill up] a Squadron of Spitfires attacked the Fifes and brewed up one petrol truck and destroyed our barbers' tools. The order to "get your hair cut" was now meaningless"

According to 2TAF Vol 2 Breakout to Bodenplatte July 1944 to January 1945 by Shores & Thomas it relates that it was mainly a day of movement for the fighter wings, and recce wings.

125 Wing for example (in which my late father served) covers the period 29/8/44 to 7/9/44 in one ORB entry, something that happened rarely as it was usually a daily entry - the scribe was obviously busy elsewhere away from his typewriter! (They did a similar thing in late September, early October, when they moved from B.70 Antwerp/Deurne to B.82 Grave)

"In these few days 125 Wing dropped in at 3 different strips and covered a total distance of 223 miles as the crow flies. ‘A’ Party left B.19 at LINGEVRES on the 29th August and moved to B.34 near DAMVILLE and south of EVREUX. This strip proved to be completely unserviceable and when ‘A’ Party had been there 36 hours, orders were received to move on to B.40 which was located S.E. of BEAUVAIS. It was just a case of chasing the Army the whole time, and this time the Allied armies were moving very fast and in the right direction with the Hun showing a clean pair of heels. While the aircraft were left behind at B.19 with the ‘B’ Party, what little flying was done proved entirely uneventful. The front line had moved so fast that with 90 gallon tanks a patrol of short duration over ARRAS-AMIENS was all that was possible.

On September 1st ‘A’ Party moved off to cross the SEINE to B.40, a strip located S.E. of BEAUVAIS between NIVILLERS and VILONGE a distance of 60 miles as the crow flies. ‘B’ Party was left behind at LINGEVRES and when orders came to move they had to do the trip from LINGEVRES to BEAUVAIS by road a distance of approximately 160 miles. The convoy was split into 3 parties and halts were made at 2030 at night and 0830 in the morning for hot meal which was served in very short time under difficult conditions. The journey was commenced at 1600 hrs and BEAUVAIS was reached at approximately 1100 hrs the following morning. There were one or two breakdowns on the road but the convoys as a whole were a most orderly and efficient sight.

BEAUVAIS proved quite a pleasant spot and the strip was shared with 122 Wing. But we were not destined to rest there long and on the 4th of September “A” party were ordered to move again. The Army was evidently out to break all records. B.52 was located S.E. of DOUAI and proved a welcome spot having every appearance of a static station with decent roads and buildings which later served ideally for H.Q.’s and Messes. The lavatories were certainly fully fashioned enough to please the most statically minded personnel. From DOUAI some uneventful front line patrols were flown from BRUSSELS – ANTWERP. Things were moving so fast that we were again being outranged by advances of Allied Troops. We are still wondering why we are still here. Our nomadic life has become such a habit that we begin to fret if we stay in a place much over 24 hours."

I would tend to think that the other Wings ORB's would be completed in a similar manner, so really you would need to find the entries for the individual squadrons involved to see if they claimed any MET (Motorised Enemy Transport, as they obviously presumed it to be), in the case of 125 Wing it would be: 132 (City of Bombay) Squadron, 453 Squadron RAAF, 441 (Silver Fox) Squadron RCAF and 602 (City of Glasgow) Squadron, and although nothing is in the Wing ORB précis that does not mean that no MET had been attacked and had been written up in the actual Squadron ORB for that day - not much help I admit, sorry!

"Fighter Command War Diaries" by John Foreman reports "Day: General The Allied advance continued; the enclave at Dieppe was captured by the Canadians. British forces took Arras and the US advance reached Cambrai and Verdun. Offensive Operations: Armed Reconnaissances by Spitfire units resulted in the loss of five pilots reported missing, mostly by flak..."

Good luck in your quest. Please keep us updated if you find an answer.

Allan
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  #700  
Old 7th July 2015, 19:20
Observer1940 Observer1940 is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

First 24 hours of Operation Overlord - loss of 113 aircraft, many by friendly fire.

"6 Jun 1944 See D-Day. Allied air forces flew a total of 14,674 sorties during the first 24 hours of Operation Overlord for the loss of 113 aircraft, many by friendly fire. Fighter cover for the invasion beaches was provided by nine squadrons of Spitfires, while Typhoon and Mustang fighter-bombers of 2nd TAF flew armed reconnaissance missions further inland. Such was the Allied air supremacy that the Luftwaffe only flew 319 sorties in the same period."

http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/rafhis...meline1944.cfm
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