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Old 6th May 2016, 13:50
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
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Heinkel III of 4/KG 26 Loss 10th April 1940 Crew List

A Heinkel III of 4/KG 26 was Lost 10th April 1940. The aircraft was shot down by aircraft of 603 and 605 Sqn some ten miles off Kinnaird Head, near Fraserburgh

The pilot Oberleutnant Harald Vogel later wrote

"Of the crew of four, two other ranks (a mechanic-gunner and a wireless operator-gunner) were shot during the first stages of the attack. The observer (who had been promoted to corporal that very day) and I left the plane by parachutes after both engines had caught fire. I was the only one to survive and was picked out of the water by the British destroyer
"Ulster" (sic) which had escorted the convoy under attack.

Firstly, can anyone please identify the rest of the crew of this aircraft? and also provide the name of the ship who rescued Harald Vogel ?

Note: It cannot be Ulster as that was not built until 1942

Vogel provides the following clue

"the destroyer was part of the navy reserve immobilised in peace time and re-activated for the war."

He disembarked 24 hours later "at the Royal Navy installations at the
shore of the Firth of Forth opposite Edinburgh city"


At the time this incident was reported thus

Thursday 11 April 1940 , Western Mail , South Glamorgan, Wales

Mass Raids on Scapa Flow
TOWNS MACHINE-GUNNED IN “MURDEROUS ATTACK
The Admiralty, the Air Ministry and the Ministry of Home
Security announced early this morning;— “Yesterday evening the
enemy carried out a number bombing raids in the North Scotland.
It has already been announced that two Heinkel bombers were shot down.
“These were carrying out an attack upon a
convoy and when shot down fell in the Moray Firth. It is believed that
a third enemy bomber was destroyed in the same engagement.
Later the enemy attacked Scapa Flow in force. Air-raid warnings
were sounded at 8.51 p.m. by way
precaution in the extreme North of Scotland, and the raiders passed”
signal was given at about 10.30 p.m.

The raid was carried out by large numbers of enemy aircraft,
which attacked successive waves of large and small formations. Bombs were dropped and machinegun attacks were carried out
against Stromness and Kirkwall. The raid was, however
was, however, abortive, and no damage was done to warships or other shipping. No damage was caused to property. The only casualty
was one man slightly wounded. “Anti-aircraft guns opened fire and both Fleet Air Arm and fighter aircraft were sent
up to intercept. It is certain that enemy bombers ware brought down by anti-aircraft fire and one by fighter aircraft. is probable that at least two more enemy bombers were also brought down by fighters. They were seen to be seriously damaged by machine-gun file and it is most likely that they were unable to reach their bases. “One member of an enemy crew who jumped by parachute just before his aircraft crashed into the sea was picked up by a British destroyer.”

I think Fledgling Eagles incorrectly states that all of Vogles crew survived but also says rescued by "Royal Navy Trawler"


Many Thanks

Paul
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Old 6th May 2016, 15:03
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Peter Cornwell Peter Cornwell is offline
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Re: Heinkel III of 4/KG 26 Loss 10th April 1940 Crew List

10 April 1940 4./KG26 Heinkel He111H-4 (6998). Shot down in the North Sea, 10 miles north-east of Kinnairds Head, by Red Section of No.605 Squadron (F/O Leeson, P/O P.E. Carter, and Sgt W.M.F. Moffat) during attack on convoy 5.30 p.m. FF Oberlt Harald Vogel baled out and captured badly wounded, BO Uffz Johann Duden baled out but detached from parachute and missing, BF Gefr Günther Riech and BM Gefr Paul Utecht both killed. Aircraft 100% write-off.
Harald Vogel was picked up by the destroyer HMS Woolston and landed at Rosyth next day.
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Old 6th May 2016, 15:36
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
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Re: Heinkel III of 4/KG 26 Loss 10th April 1940 Crew List

Peter

Many thanks

Paul
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Old 4th January 2019, 20:36
Larry Larry is offline
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Re: Heinkel III lost 10th April 1940

Forgive me for taking on to this old post but there was another He 111 shot down near Burray, Orkneys on 10th April 1940, apparently by 43 Sqn B Flight; F/O JD Edmunds, Fl Lt Peter Townsend, F/O Folkes and P/O Upton.

I'd appreciate confirmation of this as when I search I get nothing except accounts of the He 111 shot down on 8th April by Townsend that crash landed on RAF Wick airfield.

Thanks in advance

Larry
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Old 4th January 2019, 21:22
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Re: Heinkel III of 4/KG 26 Loss 10th April 1940 Crew List

Are you sure it's the 10th April, and not the 8th April...?

4./KG 26
He 111 H-4
1H+FM
6964

Source: Luftwaffe Crash Archive, Volume 1, page 37.
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Old 4th January 2019, 23:43
Larry Larry is offline
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Re: Heinkel III of 4/KG 26 Loss 10th April 1940 Crew List

This suggestion that 43 Sqn pilots shot down an He 111 came from Hawker Hurricane Survivors book by Gordon Riley, when I was looking up the history of Hurricane L1592. A search then of Scapa Flow & Orkneys mentions the same thing on page 37 of this link

http://www.academia.edu/4348822/Scap...ng_Perceptions

Could it be 10th May?
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Old 5th January 2019, 16:44
Brian Bines Brian Bines is online now
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Re: Heinkel III of 4/KG 26 Loss 10th April 1940 Crew List

The 43 Sqd. claim on the 10th April was by Blue section including S/L Lott and F/O Christie at 1650hrs. The combat report states the Heinkel headed back to the Orkneys after being hit but the pilot could not maintain height and ditched 30 miles east of Copinsay. The aircraft broke up and four men were seen in the water the position was radioed in .
I seem to remember a very old article (RAF Flying Review ?) in which I thought Townsend reported this engagement and I had assumed it was a combat he was involved in.
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Old 5th January 2019, 18:45
Larry Larry is offline
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Re: Heinkel III of 4/KG 26 Loss 10th April 1940 Crew List

Thanks for he replies.

So as such an unconfirmed loss in Luftwaffe records?

And why was Gordon Riley so sure that 43 Sqn B Flight; F/O JD Edmunds, Fl Lt Peter Townsend, F/O Folkes and P/O Upton shot down a He 111 on that day?

Perhaps the date is wrong but still likely to be April or May 1940 before L1592 of 43 Sqn moved south?
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Old 5th January 2019, 19:24
Brian Bines Brian Bines is online now
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Re: Heinkel III of 4/KG 26 Loss 10th April 1940 Crew List

Larry , looking through the PRO combat reports for 43 Sqd. it appears the Edmunds, Townsend, Folkes and Upton claims are for the 8th, I could only find Lott and Christie on the 10th. As regards Luftwaffe losses on the 10th a He111P of 3(F)/Ob.d.Luft was reported missing unfortunately I have no details plus 2 Ju88s of 4/KG30 from attacks on Scapa Flow. I/KG26 lost its Kom.with his crew but this was a later in the evening.

Just found details of 3(F)/Ob.d.Luft loss -mission to Scapa Flow Oblt. Karl Heinz, Obfw Erwin Knoth, Uffz Friedholm Busch, Obgef Rolf Antage all missing Antage subsequently declared dead 28-2-42.

Last edited by Brian Bines; 5th January 2019 at 20:03. Reason: Additional info.
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Old 6th January 2019, 03:05
robert robert is offline
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Re: Heinkel III of 4/KG 26 Loss 10th April 1940 Crew List

Hi,

this He 111 of 3.(F)/ObdL was coded L2+DS (takeoff at 14.03 hrs from Westerland).

Robert
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