1 Sqn on 16 August 1940

[Andy Saunders]

Random notes for West Sussex 16.8.1940 from local records:

Hurricane force landed at Birdham 13.03hrs
Hurricane in marshes near Thorney Island 13.50hrs
Hurricane at Woodgate, Aldingbourne 17.58hrs. Pilot injured

Andy

[timothy]

Like I said to Michal, we didn't do too well that day!!

[Franek Grabowski]

Tim, your log book states 1340, so I assume you wrote that at the time of events. I would not be surprised if your log book is more accurate than several contemporary documents, this depending on clerks. Worth to note here that the patrol report you have pasted in here clearly notes take off and landing times, thus excluding possibility that you have had been downed at 1240. Also, it states that the Squadron was to patrol base, so did not proceed to Tangmere immediately. I would say 1340 seems pretty logical and in sequence of events.

[steve sheridan]

Evening Tim, many thanks for answering my post and providing information with regs. 11.8.40.
Do you have your logbook on hand, to be able to clarify which Hurri you were flying this day.

Also, have you previously posted scans from your logbook featuring the Battle of Britain period? ... I feel sure i remember seeing some!

Best regs,
Steve.

[timothy]

Steve - no - very seldom kept numbers. If it were not for Andy, I wouldn't know my 16/8 a/c either! Scans? Yes. But don't believe the times prior to 16/8 - they got corrupted. That's why I'm trying to get new evidence from Archives.

Franek - as I said, I wish I could offer something positive.

1. Patrol base? I would bet that while we were climbing, we were ordered onto Raid 47. So possibly 25 min to Selsey? I certainly don't recall hanging around!!

2. Logbook? No - God knows when I wrote that. I was hospitalised & then on 'sick leave' until late September. I'm surprised I put so much info in there so long after. As to the time - it was something stuck in my mind but, as I say, it was just as likely to have been 1240 - joining up the 40 (twenty TO) with the one, giving 1340. I am quite happy to be put right on this, & would much sooner believe the ground repoting than mine. After all, as you're abandoning an aircraft, you can be excused for a bit of inaccuracy?

So sorry that I can't set matters right.

= Tim

[Andy Saunders]

Tim


I believe that the Hurricane "in marshes nr Thorney Island" at 13.50 refers to your machine. The incident is timed at 13.50, but this can sometimes be the time the incident report came into the control centre. I need to check back to my primary source on this, but if not the time of the incident then it must have been shortly before 13.50 if that helps any?

[Franek Grabowski]

So it looks that Tim is just too modest with his approach to own memory!
Tim, personally, I would rather believe that you somehow learned the time, be it a glance on a clock, a word from the people down on the ground, who helped you, or perhaps a document that you have seen back on the Squadron. Please note, that Wick (if it was Wick of course) claimed his victory at 1335, so there is still some inaccuracy. The base patrol - I can imagine you forget about it, it was a daily routine, nothing to bother with.
I am very glad of this discussion as it developed.
We have some documents, we have a witness, but we still have problems to establish what actually had happened. A nail to the coffin to those who believe such tie ups are easy.

[timothy]

So where have you been all these years, Andy, while everyone else has been going grey at the gills??

Help any? I would have thought that it put a seal on something? But I skipped over the description of marshes near Thorney Is & didn't even register that you wrote it. Might have saved myself a load of trouble.

So these were marshes, were they?? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...o04/web/WW.jpg Hope that's not giving anything away??

= Tim

PS How did I know the time, Franek? I quote Norman Gelb....
"
"

[Fairlop]

A very progressive disscussion with interesting advance in time(s). I am very glad the squadron entries, new memories and ground reports bring needed advance. Thanks for that.
However I am surprised with such time scattering regarding the final of P3173 (1.05, 1.50pm). And the „marshes“ time is a lot of minutes after last (know) German Abschussmeldung.
Andy, will the check of primary source earn on this please ?
Tim, is there a possibility your mother mentioned / watch the time of the fight or b/o too ?

Michal

[timothy]

Michal - Mother said she watched an action. No time. Knowing Mothers.....?......but within a very short time, she 'knew' it was me because the ambulance asked for Mrs Elkington - which was her previous name.

When she got to the Hospital, she was told that I was dead. But that was the previous chap in my bed. Thankfully!! She finally got in to see me, but didn't recognise me because my efforts to get out without disconnecting had somewhat rearranged my face!!
Had a thought later this pm - if it were me landing that was the crux, one would, of course, add 10 mins to 1340 for the descent at 20ft/sec???

Great view of the coastline from that height - lovely day - but thank you, Fred Berry, for saving my life.