Identification of two pilots, France, Summer 1944

[Nick Beale]

(Posted on behalf of Jochen Prien)

Gentlemen,

attached please find a photo showing two pilots taken in the summer of 1944 in France; may be these have been subject of another thread somewhere else before, yet I still try to establish their identity. The photo is part of a series of PK-photos taken in France by a PK-photographer and are now held by the B.A. Several photos from this series showing a Bf109G-6/AS and a Bf109G-6/Bf109G-14 have been published many times over. But as far as I know they have so far eluded positive identification.

We can see a Leutnant wearing a German Cross in Gold and an Oberfeldwebel decorated with an Iron Cross 1st Class. Does anybody know who these two pilots are ? I would be very grateful if their identity could be ascertained.

Kind regards

Jochen Prien

[Xerumbe]

I do not claim to have the solution but the vegetation in the photo could already clarify things. Would it be possible to see the pictures of the series where the aircraft appear? I do not doubt that many people have seen them without finding a solution but I have a doubt to clarify.

[Snautzer]

Little titbit: left pilot is married, picture is taken 18:55

[Stephen M. Fochuk]

iii/JG3. See pages 157 and 159 of Jean-Bernard Frappe's La Luftwaffe face au debarquement allie. Our married dude shows up.

[Russell]

Hello all,

Is there a possibility the tall thin DKiG pilot is Lt Wolf-Dietrich Steibler of JG 52 and I./JG 3?

Russell

[gwdsoldat]

Hello Snautzer,
the pilot is wearing his ring on the left hand. That means often, in Germany, that he is, in time, engaged with his girl.
Very small help for you and Nick I know.
Best greetings
Manfred

[Pete63]

The one on the left looks a bit like Heinrich Bartels.
His right eyebrow is a bit higher than the one on the left.
His mouth and chin show similarities to other Bartels pictures and in some pictures his pose is the same... There is a Bartels picture in Italy in which you can even see a ring on the same finger mentioned earlier in this thread... But I'm not sure it's him...
Maybe someone else here can shed a light on this...
With kind regards,
Piet

[John Manrho]

I also believe this is III./JG 3.....somehow I saw this guy before but not sure where it was......

[Pete63]

Maybe far fetched, but could the one on the right be Joachim Müncheberg..?
There is a bit of a resemblance when you compare the chin and the teeth, e.g. ...
With kind regards,
Piet

[Jochen Prien]

Gentlemen,

many thanks for your input although I'm afraid that so far we haven't really moved forward. I have of course seen some of the photos in Jean-Bernard Frappé's publication and noticed that he presented them within his chapter on III./JG 3. Yet for me these photos have nothing to do with that Gruppe - neither the Bf109G-6/AS would match that unit nor any of the other Bf109s shown, none of which shows the black Gruppe bar, the Geschwader badge or any other marking that would hint at III./JG3.

The Leutnant is definitely not Heinrich Bartels who was never commssioned and had been wearing the KC since November 1942. I think we may rule out Müncheberg as well. And it's not Stiebler either if you tak a close look.

I still cannot believe, that it should not be possible to identify at least the Leutnant based on his decoration.

KR

Jochen Prien