Me-262 losses the 21st February 1945.

[ironrat]

I was wondering if anyone had info, or a complete list of the Me-262 losses the 21/02/1945.
Cheers,
Ironrat

[Tom D]

According to "The Me 262 Combat Diary," Appendix II "Known Losses of Me 262 Aicraft," there were ten Me 262's lost on 21/02/45:

II/JG 7, Wk Nr 110810; III/JG 7, Wk Nr 110519; II/KG(J) 51, Wk Nr 170004; II/KG(J) 51, Wk Nr 500056; II/KG(J) 51, Wk Nr 170199; II?KG(J) 51, Wk Nr 170010; II/KG(J) 54, Wk Nr 111612; I/KG(J) 54, Wk Nr 111630; 10/NJG 11, Wk Nr 110600; and 2/NAufkgr 6, Wk Nr 110565.

Tom D

[ironrat]

Well, from stormbirds list:


110565 - oblt. Willy Knoll, crashed at Landsberg/Lech

110600 - damaged during combat, destroyed landing at Prenzlau

111612 - crashed at Gibelstadt

170199, belonged to Gerhard Rohde, crashed - where?? were did he took off from for his mission?

111630 , strafed at Gibelstadt

170004, Reifenschaden, tyre burst on take off

And the others?? Were they any Me-262 MIA that day?

Ironrat

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, guys.

I have details of 11 losses on this date:

Date: Unit: Aircraft:
21.02.1945 III./Erg.J.G.2 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 111616
21.02.1945 II./J.G.7 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 110810
21.02.1945 III./J.G.7 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 110964
21.02.1945 I./K.G.(J) 54 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 111630
21.02.1945 III./K.G.(J) 54 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 111612
21.02.1945 I./K.G.51 Messerschmitt Me 262 WNr. 0199
21.02.1945 II./K.G.51 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-2 WNr. 170004
21.02.1945 II./K.G.51 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-2 WNr. 170010
21.02.1945 II./K.G.51 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-2 WNr. 500056
21.02.1945 Stab/N.A.Gr.6 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 110565
21.02.1945 III./N.J.G.11 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 110600

As You can see, the WNr of the III./JG 7 aircraft differs from the list posted by Tom D.

Also - I have still to see confirmation that KG 51 were ever renamed/reassigned as a KG(J) unit, and I feel we should avoid using this designation for KG 51.

I have not worked on these, they are the 'raw' reports by GenQu 6 Abt. Locations are given for all except the 0199, 170004 and 500056.

This late there would really be no way of telling if this is a complete list (as is the case for most of the war except the period covered by the Summarische Verlustemeldungen)

Regards,
Andreas

[ironrat]

The 170004 was probably destroyed at Reifenschaden, because of a tyre burst on take off . The locations you are talking about are the loss locations or airfields locations? If loss, could you give them for the remaining machines from your list?

It still leaves the 170199 and the 500056 werknumber Me-262. Maybe others?
Regards,
Ironrat

[ironrat]

Andreas,
I have an account of a P-51D from the 356FG shooting down a Me-262 the 21st Feb. 1945. In many publications, the Me-262 is identified as Rhode's jet.
I think it wasn't Rohde.

First, as the fight took place some way east of Berlin and I/KG 51 was at this time at the Rheine/Hopsten aifield it could'n reach the presumed combat area and go back to his airfield.

Second, form a friend in Holland I have an in formation about Rhode being downed by british AA. More important he had acces to a copy of Rohde MIA document stating his take off after 17 00H. The P-51D downed its Messerchmitt around 15 30 H.

If it wasn't Rohde, who was it? Where to look for?

Regards,
Ironrat

[Ruy Horta]

Originally Posted by ironrat

Andreas,
More important he had acces to a copy of Rohde MIA document stating his take off after 17 00H. The P-51D downed its Messerchmitt around 15 30 H.

Just a remark, but are you sure they are using the same time zone?

If 15:30 is GMT and 17:00 is German time it could still be possible.

[ironrat]

Well, the difference between GMT and German time is 1 H, as I wrote the Me-262 took of after 17 00 H, 17 08H based on the document, if you add a few houndreds km to fly before reaching the encounter place... I don't think so. The Me-262 in Holland was downed at 17 30-17 40, near Volkel base which seams possible to me.
Well, There are 2 downed Me-262 and only one Rohde. I belive he was downed at Volkel by AA, and not downed by a P-51D houndreds of km from there.
The question still remains. Who was flying the second machine? What unit could have sent a Me-262 fighting some kilometers east of Berlin?

Regards
Ironrat

[ironrat]

I'm not an expert in the firld of Me-262, if somebody could help me more or at least point out were to look for.

I compared today the list from Stormbirds with Osprey's "German Jet Aces of WWII". In the book there is mention of OFW Helmut Baudach who bailed out wounded near Schonwalde (Niederbayern). The book is giving the date 21st of Feb. 1945 (yes!!), but Stormbirds gives 22nd of Feb. Which one is the right one?

By the way. I've got from a friend Tony Wood's list for the 1939/1940 period. There are a lot of errors on the list, at least concerning the types of planes downed in September 1939 over Poland. How could I contact Tony?

Regards
Ironrat

[George Hopp]

Times are a big trial, because the UK used double Daylight Saving Time during the summer, so, what did it use during the winter? I ask because local times were often used rather than GMT, and I am just wondering if the two were the same where the 356th FG was based.