He 111 MG15 dorsal gunner protective shield

[pzopzo]

Hello,
I am counting on a little help with this rather uncommon item. I wonder what is time span of using a shield like that on airplane (He 111) or airplanes? Maybe it has been in use on some other airplanes armed with MG15? Do You think that this kind of shield could have been in use during 1939 campaign in Poland?
Bet wishes for 2021!
Regards,
Janusz

[rof120]

Have a look at the engine on the right side of the picture. I am NOT an expert at engine cowlings but it looks rather like a radial engine.

I almost feel sorry for the poor German rear-gunners, especially those on the back of their AC. They did shoot down enemy fighters but they were killed much more often.

[Modeldad]

That aircraft does appear to be an He 111 H. But I have never come across that protective shield before. Perhaps a one-off. It would seem to create more problems than it solved. Sighting and flexibility of the gum may be compromised. It is not shown in the H-5 weapons manual.

[Chris Goss]

Definitely He 111. Some dorsal gunners, like in KG 55, came up with their own modifications for better fire power or protection

[pzopzo]

Originally Posted by Chris Goss

Definitely He 111. Some dorsal gunners, like in KG 55, came up with their own modifications for better fire power or protection

Many thanks for input. Could You provide some pictures or links where I could find some more informations?

[edNorth]

this is H-6 or later (Jumo 211 F/J 1941 or later) VS 11 wood props
(so normal be NOT in H-5 manual)

[pzopzo]

There are some general information about exchanging MG15 for better weapons around 1940. Who knows when Splitterschutzbrille came into service?

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by pzopzo

There are some general information about exchanging MG15 for better weapons around 1940. Who knows when Splitterschutzbrille came into service?

It's mentioned in this article on my website.

If you want the source for that, it's in ULTRA:

CX/JQ/172

35. On 24/7/40 it was learnt that crews in cabin-aeroplanes are to have a new type of protective glasses to protect their eyes against shots penetrating the safety glass of the cabin and against sun-dazzle. These new glasses are referred to as: FL 30550.

In the same article (and also from ULTRA) there's a reference to Stab KG 54 on 5 August 1940 trying to get hold of six MG 131 but being unable to obtain them.

[pzopzo]

Nick, thank You very much for help. Respect for huge research done. It looks like protective plates for heads and Splitterschutz Brille were ready for the Battle of Britain. I only wonder if the crews ordered plates bacause they knew such had been already in use (since when then?) or just designed them and had been waiting for delivery?

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by pzopzo

Nick, thank You very much for help. Respect for huge research done. It looks like protective plates for heads and Splitterschutz Brille were ready for the Battle of Britain. I only wonder if the crews ordered plates bacause they knew such had been already in use (since when then?) or just designed them and had been waiting for delivery?

I have a couple of references to armour plate (see below) but they don't say where on the aircraft it will be fitted:

CX/JQ/93
37. On 28/6 5 a/c of I./KG 76 (Fliegerkorps I) at NORA having engines changed. Date of delivery or armour-plating for them remains undetermined.

CX/JQ/117 (Deciphered on 7 July)
17. Flieger Korps I reported to Fliegerhorst Krefeld that KG 1 needed 100 sets of armour plates for He 111 machines and KG 76 needed 30 sets of armour for Do 17 Z machines.

CX/JQ/178
22. According to a report received on 26/7 it appears that three a/c of KG 55 are to be fitted with armour plates at Leipheim and Hall.

Elsewhere there is mention of getting head-protection armour for the Bf 109 E and armour for the Hs 126 B.