Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19th March 2019, 12:07
ytargsillou ytargsillou is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 23
ytargsillou is on a distinguished road
special belgian route for a stream of Market Garden Gliders

Hi all,

On 17th september 1944 afternoon , a stream of DC3 towing gliders flew near La Louvière in Belgium. These planes came from the north to the south. La Louvière is about 45 km south of Brussels.

During Market garden, planes took off from England and flew from the west to the east. There were 2 routes, the northern route ( by Zeeland islands in Holland ) and the southern route ( by Belgium ). This southern route was on the north of Brussels.

Then, I don't understand why there was a stream coming from the north and 50 km south of the southern route ...

Does anybody have an idea ?

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19th March 2019, 16:14
ClinA-78 ClinA-78 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 871
ClinA-78 is on a distinguished road
Re: special belgian route for a stream of Market Garden Gliders

Hi,

I cannot add much but a glider was forced to land just South of Nivelles when the towing cable broke. Story told by eye-witness, guess it was at that moment.

ClinA-78

PS :by the way, what's your name?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19th March 2019, 16:35
ytargsillou ytargsillou is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 23
ytargsillou is on a distinguished road
Re: special belgian route for a stream of Market Garden Gliders

Bonjour Nicolas,

Thanks a lot.

Christophe ...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19th March 2019, 22:34
ClinA-78 ClinA-78 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 871
ClinA-78 is on a distinguished road
Re: special belgian route for a stream of Market Garden Gliders

Ah yes...

(I visit today the landowner at Croix-Lez-Rouveroy, 20 years to the day after the P-47 dig there).

All the best.

Nicolas
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 20th March 2019, 07:59
Alain57 Alain57 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,564
Alain57 is on a distinguished road
Re: special belgian route for a stream of Market Garden Gliders

Hi Nicolas ,

Do you know some more info on the gliders crashlanding ?

Grts
Alain57
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 20th March 2019, 08:56
ClinA-78 ClinA-78 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 871
ClinA-78 is on a distinguished road
Re: special belgian route for a stream of Market Garden Gliders

Nop...

ClinA-78
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 20th March 2019, 19:49
Leendert Leendert is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,812
Leendert is on a distinguished road
Re: special belgian route for a stream of Market Garden Gliders

I hope there's not a confusion with an RAF Hamilcar that came down came down in the vicinity of Nivelles in March 1945. Operation Varsity.


Regards,


Leendert
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 21st March 2019, 07:57
ClinA-78 ClinA-78 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 871
ClinA-78 is on a distinguished road
Re: special belgian route for a stream of Market Garden Gliders

Perhaps Leendert, witness was not aware about the date.

ClinA-78
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 21st March 2019, 17:02
RSwank RSwank is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bloomington, IN USA
Posts: 1,045
RSwank is on a distinguished road
Re: special belgian route for a stream of Market Garden Gliders

I think this episode may be the result of confusion of dates. On the lead-up to Operation Varsity there was a "test run", a week before called Operation Token, where gliders where towed along the routes planned for Varsity, but they were then not released near the Rhine but were towed back to (or maybe near) their bases. A map of the Varsity planned routes is here (note the leg between Bethune and Wavre which runs a little north of La Louviere):
http://www.airbornetroopcarrier.com/...tevarsity.html

I have not found how many planes and gliders were involved in Operation Token, (it may have been just a few squadrons or serials) nor an exact description of how or where the gliders landed, (i.e. back at the airfields or designated landing areas near the take-off points or what.) The main point is that they returned back along the outbound routes, so gliders may have been observed flying from NE to SW over Belgium.

References to Operation Token can be seen on these links, (search for Token):

(Note this man was based at Woodbridge):
https://aircrew.org.uk/surrey/aircre...es/goughR3.htm

https://news.yahoo.com/hitler-apos-n...180000769.html


The fourth reference to "Token" on this link (taken from "Green Light" about the 81st TCS which was then based at A-80 (Mourmelon-le-Grand Airfield) in France):

https://archive.org/stream/AFD-10092...7-040_djvu.txt
says:

"We performed only one glider training mission, aimed at familiarizing glider
pilots with the hazards of double-tow gliding. Another purpose of this glider
training mission (Operation TOKEN) was to check carefully on the rate of gas
consumption in a C-47 towing two fully loaded gliders."

Last edited by RSwank; 22nd March 2019 at 13:38.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 21st March 2019, 19:22
Leendert Leendert is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,812
Leendert is on a distinguished road
Re: special belgian route for a stream of Market Garden Gliders

Scroll down to March 15th and 17th, 1945 on this link for (part of) RAF involvement in 'Exercise Token': http://muhaz.org/operations-record-book.html?page=3

Hamilcar in my previous post was NX822 on 24 March 1945 "SW of Brussels".

Regards,

Leendert
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New book about US C-47 losses in operation Market Garden marketc47 Books and Magazines 0 25th November 2010 17:53
Spitfire Histories Alex Smart Allied and Soviet Air Forces 16 13th April 2010 13:19
Operation Market Garden Sylvester Stadler Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 7 22nd June 2007 23:13
Why did 3 JD relocate;compromise of Market Garden? SES Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 21st January 2005 17:26


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net