Hans Philipp Bf109E-3 on eBay

[ouidjat]

Hi gents,

Here is the picture: http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-Ken...item3ca6d771c6
Sell price is already very high. Seems some got what was about.
4./JG 54, "Weisse 1" flown by Lt. Hans Philipp, September 1940 in Coquelles.
Some, very few, clues: Camouflage pattern on cowling, and extension low under cowling. Dark coloured main gear legs. Rear-view mirror on early canopy frame. General background environment and 8 victory bars.

Regards,
Franck.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

This is probably a 6 Staffel a/c, not the one of Philipp, who was in 4 Staffel.

Regards

[ouidjat]

Hi Larry,

Why not? But why(?) is more interesting. Telling the truth I'm not sure my source -another picture- is that reliable!
Regards,
Franck.

[Bertrand H]

salut Franck,

I am used with environment in the Calais aera and I do not why, but the nude background does not look for very well to Coquelles.

The last issue of Batailles aériennes on JG52 (http://www.avions-bateaux.com/en/cat...ogue_1309.html) have prints taken in Coquelles.

Bertrand

[ouidjat]

Hello Bertrand,
As I said:

Originally Posted by ouidjat

Telling the truth I'm not sure my source -another picture- is that reliable!

I'm sure this ebay picture and the one I used as source are displaying the same plane, and my "source" caption talk about one Hans Philipp 4./JG54 white 1 in Coquelles, septembre 1940.
Now, Larry said this is a 6./JG54, I said "Why"? you are saying it's not Coquelles, ok then no problem...
So another solution? 8 victory bars, 6./JG 54, around september?.

Thanks Bertrand.
Cheers,
Franck.

[robert]

But this is not September. Franck I know your source and believe me there many wrongly captions.

Regards

Robert

[ouidjat]

Hi Robert,

Yes, that's the reason I said "It's not that reliable". So, another solution?

[robert]

Of course there must be a "solution"...

Regards

Robert

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by robert

But this is not September. Franck I know your source and believe me there many wrongly captions.

Hello Robert, Hello All,
In fact, the many-wrongly-captions source got is own source on JAGDWAFFE Battle of Britain Phase two, August-September 1940, by Erik Mombeek, David Wadman & Martin Pegg, Page 157.
Unless Mr Mombeek was wrong, the picture I did post shows the same aircraft.
Concerning "September", I'll be glad to get a complete Hans Philipp victory list.
Concerning "Coquelles", well I agree; better Campagne-lès-Guînes.

Cheers,
Franck.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I've examined the reference photos in the Jagdwaffe volume, and this aircraft could be either 4. or 6./JG54, but likely is 4 staffel. It is definitely the same a/c seen in the two photos in the Mombeek Volume. The things that we know is that this is in a camouflage pattern without yellow ID markings, which probably dates this prior to about the 2nd week of August, 1940, but definitely during the BoB, so July or early August, 1940. The thing that bothers me about the ID of this as "White 1," is the position of the "1" in the photo published in Mombeek. It is so far forward that it is much more likely to be "1X" in the range from 10 to 15, but is not likely to be just "1." See the example of "Yellow 10" on P. 318 of Prien's JFV #4/II for an example. Moreover, there was another 4 Staffel pilot who had a victory total by this period that could account for this a/c, Obfw. Maximilian Stotz, who got his 9th on July 8th. Since Philipp did not move up to StaKap of 4th Staffel until August 25th, when you would expect that he might have taken over "White 1," and this was photographed earlier than that due to the absence of yellow campaign markings, this could still be Philipps a/c, but carrying a "1X" a/c number, rather than "White 1."

At this point, the actual plane number is only likely to be determined by further photography showing that clearly. Even then, it could still be either Phillip or Stotz, assuming that this is a 4 Staffel a/c.

So, unless Mombeek is working from something more than interpretation of the two photos in his book, his ID of this as Philipp's a/c and "White 1" has to be highly suspect.

Regards,