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  #1  
Old 1st August 2022, 20:19
gilles collaveri gilles collaveri is offline
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Bf110 Rudder

Dear all,

I was sent pictures of a Bf110 rudder, which was found in East of France a few years after the war.

it has grey paint (looks like a night fighter camo, I can't insert pictures, sorry), There is no number painted under the swastika.

There is a plate on this rudder :

Sach - Nr 110.311 H (stamp quality: "241")
Werk-Nr 20660 X 12 (stamp quality : "188")

Can someone help trace the story of this Bf110 ?
Is the Werknr the one of the assembly or the one of the aircraft ?

Thanks a lot , all best

GC
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  #2  
Old 1st August 2022, 20:38
harrison987 harrison987 is offline
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Re: Bf110 Rudder

nothing there can ID the aircraft. That is only the rudder info (rudder part number and rudder serial number).

Mike
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  #3  
Old 2nd August 2022, 00:53
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Bf110 Rudder

Gilles, bonsoir.

Can you visually ID it, if it was from a G model or earlier model (maybe C or D)?
Do you have an idea where was it found (town) and date (43, 44)? Maybe this can give a North to follow...

A.
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  #4  
Old 2nd August 2022, 04:26
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stephen f. polyak stephen f. polyak is offline
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Re: Bf110 Rudder

I’ve seen this item. It is actually a (starboard) vertical stabilizer; the rudder is gone. The ID (assembly production) tag on the outside face of the fin, a narrow elongated plate that is attached vertically lengthwise, is equivalent to those seen on other survivors in museums and private collections. I am not aware of prominent exterior changes to the 110 stabilizer, unlike the rudder (e.g., trim tab) that distinguish different variants of the plane. The paintwork, which is worn and grimy, suggests RLM 02, 63 and/or 76. The hakenkreuz is black bordered in white.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 07:34
gilles collaveri gilles collaveri is offline
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Re: Bf110 Rudder

Dear All,

thanks for your comments.
It was found near Metz, in the North East of France, in the 50's.

I wonder what was its life : which JG / NJG this Bf110 belang to...
What could we imagine ?..

All best

Gilles
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Old 2nd August 2022, 13:02
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Bf110 Rudder

GILLES,

According to De Zeng, Metz-Frescaty was indeed used by the STAB of NJG 4 up to February 1944:
Operational Units: Stab/NJG 4 (Apr 41 – Feb 44); 2./JGr. 200 (Aug 44)

So we do have a "North" to follow or a clue....maybe MATTI or others can check if there was a machine that was abandoned with not too much % of damages down there...
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Old 2nd August 2022, 13:02
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Bf110 Rudder

24 Apr 44: low-level attack by VIII Fighter Command P-47s – claimed 2 x Bf
109s, 1 x Bf 110, 1 x Fw 190 and 1 x Ju 88 destroyed, plus 1 x He 111
damaged
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  #8  
Old 2nd August 2022, 13:05
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Bf110 Rudder

Stephen, I do agree with you....without the rudder and trim tab, it gonna be hard to ID this to a G-4 or earlier version. However, with the clues that Gilles has given us, there is a good probability of this being a Stab/NJG 4 machine that was left there....maybe the machine that was claimed destroyed on the 24th April 1944...??
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Old 2nd August 2022, 14:31
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Re: Bf110 Rudder

I should add that the fin is intact in form, does not evidence crash deformation. However, there are a number of perforations in the skin that may be the result of gunfire and/or shrapnel. Thus possible ground-attack wounds. That could be another waypoint leading to the 24 April 44 low-level attack claim identified by Adriano.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 15:21
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Bf110 Rudder

Stephen,

I have seen the images too, but at least for me, it seems that those gun holes on the rudder looks like they were from small caliber arms (7.7mm or 9mm) rather than 12,7mm or .50 (at least from my own interpretation of what I saw). This would lead us to believe that the rudder served as a target for US (or French?) troops practicing their marksmanship, after the airfield was captured (!/?).

However, we can not discard this rudder being the damaged or hit by shrapnel rudder of the 24th April 1944 machine either; as you pointed out on the previous message.

Nevertheless, this is a lovely rudder with original RLM grey collours, "tending to be" from a NJG machine.

Hope that a werknummer will appear....maybe finding the US or Allied troops that liberated the airfield we could try to find mentions to Bf 110 wreckages or wrecks on it...

A.
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