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Japanese and Allied Air Forces in the Far East Please use this forum to discuss the Air War in the Far East.

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  #2  
Old 7th June 2022, 16:52
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Buckeye30 Buckeye30 is offline
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Re: American aircraft photos

Hi Ed.

Photo 1. 90FS/80FG with the "Bugs" insignia ( apparently unofficial) used before the "Bear"-- which was approved in Jan. 1945; it was on other P-47Ds and on Maj. Glenn's A2 jacket ("Sluggo"). This is probably 43-25686 a D-23-RA like many in the CBI.


Photo 3. 80FG HQ with 3-squadron colour nose ring (red-white-blue) and official Group badge, this was also on the Group c/o's no. "00" 42-27454. It was common to shadow the numbers.


Photo 2. Also looks like 80FG but don't recognise the artwork; they all had Insignia Blue tail and wing bands (Theatre markings). This must be 89th or 90th FS.



Nick

Last edited by Buckeye30; 7th June 2022 at 21:06.
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Old 8th June 2022, 20:44
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: American aircraft photos

Hi Nick,


Thanks for the details. On the third photo, I read "Butter Bean II" (with the possibility that the Roman numeral is a III).


Best,
Ed
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Old 9th June 2022, 16:36
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Re: American aircraft photos

I think this is "III"; HQ P-47s had the Group insignia on, at this time (Nov. 1944) the c/o was Col. A L Evans and this is thought to be the only P-47 with the Skull.

His Deputy Lt. Col. Stanton Smith Jr. had similar markings on 42-27447 no.79 "KAY P", (minus the skull ?) another of the many D-23-RAs.
No. 93 in photo 1 was flown by Capt. Wheeler; the rabbit was replaced by a bear in the badge, as being more aggressive.
Nick
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Old 12th June 2022, 13:45
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Re: American aircraft photos

The P-51K ( 44-12116) in photo 9 is in the Crawford Aviation Museum in Cleveland ( NX79161 "Second Fiddle"); an ex-USAF trainer and racer, as no."80".
Photo 8 ( 486/352) the middle pilot , Maj. Stephen Andrew is wearing the 21PS insignia which was the predecessor of the 486th.

Nick

Last edited by Buckeye30; 13th June 2022 at 16:01. Reason: Added 2nd photo
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Old 13th July 2022, 23:50
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: American aircraft photos

Thank you Nick.


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Old 15th July 2022, 21:47
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Re: American aircraft photos

Hi Ed. This is a B-17E from 98/11 reported as lost 13 Sept. 1942 (serial unknown though); replaced by "Typhoon McGoon II" 41-9211 with more elaborate style of name, ASV radar and same Jap flags, the large one for an H6K flying boat in 1942.
Many of these early 5th/11th BG B-17s were photographed by Ralph Morse for LIFE magazine in late 1942--early 1943 on Espiritu Santo and New Caledonia; some still had
"US ARMY" under wings.
41-9211 survived the war somehow.


Nick
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Old 18th July 2022, 12:06
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: American aircraft photos

Nick

If you look at the photo again, the date written at the bottom is interpreted by me as 8 May 1944.
That means if the original Typhoon McGoon was w/o in 1942, this is not that one.

What also bothers me about the photo, or rather the text which goes with it, are the words (TAC-PR)
Again my own interpretation would be "Tactical Photo-Reconnaissance"
Sure enough the B-17s were "maid of all works" but not really in a tactical role as late as mid 1944. were they?

Finally a small booklet I have by Wallace Forman has this to say about the name(s)
Typhoon McGoon 19BG 42-9211
Typhoon McGoon 301BG unidentified
Typhoon McGoon 11BG/98BS 42-9211

Since Freeman/Osborne make no mention of 42-9211 with 19BG I wonder from where Foreman
got that detail?

I also looked at the Pacific Wreck site where one of the photos they show is clearly of the same aircraft
and even at the same time period, even if they have it dated as 1943.
I can only interpret their captions as believing the two names were used by the same aircraft!
Since the photo they have showing only Typhoon McGoon (not II) it seems they must believe the II
was either painted out or the name repainted again, since this latter photo has more missions painted
on than the aircraft showing the II figures.

Tricky this one....
Cheers
Stig
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Old 18th July 2022, 20:07
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Re: American aircraft photos

Hi Stig. Yes it is; the 98BS was flying Recon missions (not photo-recon, I don't think they had cameras) from 23 July 1942 over the Solomons from New Caledonia. The cameramen on board were Marines.
Despite the reports it looks like there were no B-17 losses on 13 Sept. 1942 only 6 F4Fs, in the S. Pacific. Apart from the name there are several differences between the 2; TM1 has a long mast behind the pitot, TM2 a short one in a slightly different location, plus the sea-search radar.
Anyway these are some of Ralph's photos, at least 5 show TM2 --a couple with the Guadalcanal watch-tower in back; the 98th was there from Nov. 1942 while the Group was based in the New Hebrides.
Regards
Nick


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