Zwernemann and Lemke

[drgondog]

where specifically did they go down and with which specific unit?

I had Lemke as GK of II./JG3 on 4 Dec 1943 and Zwernemann as SK in JG11 on 8 April, 1944 in Brunswick/Celle area?

Thx in advance,

Bill

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Bill

Hauptmann Wilhelm Lemke (131 victories, RK-EL), Gruppenkommandeur of II./JG 3, was killed on 4 December 1943 in Bf 109 G-6 "Black <<" (W.Nr. 410 558) in aerial combat with P-47 fighters over Dodewaard, 18 kilometers west of Nijmegen. His victor was either of the American aces Maj John Meyer (24 destroyed, 1 damaged, 2 probable victories) or 1/Lt Virgil Mahoney (9 destroyed and 1 probable victories, prisoner of war 8 April 1944) of the 487th FS, 352nd FG, USAAF.

Hauptmann Josef Zwernemann (126 victories, RK-EL), Staffelkapitän of 1./JG 11, was shot down on 8 April 1944 in Fw 190 A-7/R6 "White 11" (W.Nr. 431 164) near Gardelegen by USAAF P-51 fighters. His comrades stated that he baled out of his aircraft and was then shot in his parachute by the American fighters.

I hope this helps you.

Horrido!

Leo

[drgondog]

Thanks (again) Leo.

The likely shooters are the 4th (mostly Gifhorn to Celle to Uelzen) or 355th (Sachau A/F, E Brunswick, to Gifhorn) but I haven't found an Encounter report for Gardelegen area specifically so hard to pinpoint it.

I have the same speculation regarding Lemke (JC Meyer or Meroney) but wished a cross check!

I suspect 4th FG for Zwernemann as they encountered a lot of Fw 190s - but centered from Celle to Uelzen to Brunswick. The bomber track was N-S through Brunswick so the chase eastward to Gardelegen would have been off axis for the main battle. OTH the 355th were credited with all 109s in the air so that appears to rule out Zwernemann.

Leo do you have data on location (downed) and Gruppe for
Fw Ulrich Zemper JG53 44-07-28
Fw Herbert Dehemann JG3 44-08-06
Ltn Fridolin Reinhartz JG3 44-08-06
Ltn Otto Pissot JG3 44-08-03
Uffr Hans-Joachim Schotz JG3 44-08-03

I have finished my complete 355th Honor Roll and Encounter Log - do you need a copy?

[kb]

Originally Posted by Leo Etgen

Hello Bill

Hauptmann Wilhelm Lemke (131 victories, RK-EL), Gruppenkommandeur of II./JG 3, was killed on 4 December 1943 in Bf 109 G-6 "Black <<" (W.Nr. 410 558) in aerial combat with P-47 fighters over Dodewaard, 18 kilometers west of Nijmegen. His victor was either of the American aces Maj John Meyer (24 destroyed, 1 damaged, 2 probable victories) or 1/Lt Virgil Mahoney (9 destroyed and 1 probable victories, prisoner of war 8 April 1944) of the 487th FS, 352nd FG, USAAF.

Hauptmann Josef Zwernemann (126 victories, RK-EL), Staffelkapitän of 1./JG 11, was shot down on 8 April 1944 in Fw 190 A-7/R6 "White 11" (W.Nr. 431 164) near Gardelegen by USAAF P-51 fighters. His comrades stated that he baled out of his aircraft and was then shot in his parachute by the American fighters.

I hope this helps you.

Horrido!

Leo

In his claim Meroney stated his victim crashed into a farmhouse. Any idea if this fits the location of Lemke's crash?

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Bill

Here is what I have been able to find on the pilots that you mentioned although unfortunately some of the information regarding the locations appears to be missing.

Zemper with 1./JG 53 near Titu in Romania
Dehrmann with 6./JG 3 near Chaudon in France
Reinartz with 4./JG 3 location unknown
Pissot with 10./JG 3 location unknown
Schotz with 12./JG 3 location unknown

I would be very interested in what you have been able to compile regarding the 355th Honor Roll and Encounter Log. Many thanks for your generous offer.

Horrido!

Leo

[lilsis]

Hi,


.... Feldwebel Unger, damals 24-jährig, stürzte mit seiner Maschine im Knittelkar in einer Höhe von 2.000 m ab, konnte sich durch Fallschirmabsprung retten, trat mit seinem Fallschirm den Abstieg an und meldete sich noch am gleichen Tag bei seiner Einheit als - „vom Edelweißpflücken zurück“ - im Offizierskasino in Altenau/Schongau. Arno Peters verbrennt nach Notlandung in Martinau im Flugzeug, Karl Heinz von der Steinen landet verletzt mit seinem Fallschirm, Franz Zimkeit bohrt sich mit seiner Maschine zwischen Ehenbichl und Rieden in den Schloßberg und wird in Pflach begraben. Hans Scholz stürzt am Lehnberg bei Obsteig in den Tod, Otto Pissot verliert am Grubigstein sein Leben. Das Durschnittsalter der gefallenen Piloten betrug 22 Jahre!


LG "Sis

[rob van den nieuwendijk]

Hello Bill,

On 4 Dec 43 II./JG 3 lost three Me 109's:

Stab II./JG 3 Hauptmann W. Lemke (Gruppenkommandeur) was shot down by P-47's. He crashed between Opheusden and Dodewaard (18 km west of Nijmegen) near the Parallelweg. It crashed just behind a farmhouse.

5./JG 3 lost Oberfeldwebel Josef Schütte. He was shot down in the very same mission. Schütte crashed at the Klettersteeg at Achterveld, not far away from Barneveld (Holland). Schütte also lost his life.

In another mission 5./JG 3 lost another Me 109. Near Bleiswijk (Holland) Uffz Soessdorf had to leave his Me 109. He landed safely at the ground. This loss had nothing to do with the interception of the P-47's.

Have to look into my files for more info on Reinartz and Dehrmann.

Best regards,
Rob

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by lilsis

Hi,


.... Feldwebel Unger, damals 24-jährig, stürzte mit seiner Maschine im Knittelkar in einer Höhe von 2.000 m ab, konnte sich durch Fallschirmabsprung retten, trat mit seinem Fallschirm den Abstieg an und meldete sich noch am gleichen Tag bei seiner Einheit als - „vom Edelweißpflücken zurück“ - im Offizierskasino in Altenau/Schongau. Arno Peters verbrennt nach Notlandung in Martinau im Flugzeug, Karl Heinz von der Steinen landet verletzt mit seinem Fallschirm, Franz Zimkeit bohrt sich mit seiner Maschine zwischen Ehenbichl und Rieden in den Schloßberg und wird in Pflach begraben. Hans Scholz stürzt am Lehnberg bei Obsteig in den Tod, Otto Pissot verliert am Grubigstein sein Leben. Das Durschnittsalter der gefallenen Piloten betrug 22 Jahre!


LG "Sis

Please post in English. Unless posting original texts from a document, this is an English forum.

[drgondog]

Thanks Gentlemen - Leo the files are going to your email addy - if you have changed it I will PM you.

Bill

[drgondog]

I went back to my files to get precise info from both Mission Report and individual Encounter Reports.

The 355th shot down ONLY Fw 190s on 29 March - ranging from Brunswick to Gardelegen to Ulzen.

The probable encounters with Zwernemann, if by 355th, would have been either Brown or Johnston. Johnston shot down two Fw 190s in Gardelegen to Ulzen area and in turn may have shot down by Bar near Ulzen, where he blew his engine evading a 190.

Brown had a tendency to consider a German pilot fair game until he was completely out of his airplane. If Zwernemann was indeed killed in his chute, it is also possible that he was killed trying bail out if he was Henry Brown's victim.

Brown's victim was described as very skilled and evaded most of his shots with violent snap rolls, diving and zooming in tight rolls - until a burst caught the engine.

Dumbass Factor - I was looking at Mar 29 when Zwernemann was KIA on April 8. All 355 scores were 109s on 4/08

Brown described his encounter as east of Brunswick.