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Pre-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation Please use this forum to discuss Military and Naval Aviation before the Second World War.

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  #1  
Old 11th July 2009, 04:10
Tom Semenza Tom Semenza is offline
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Looking for WW I claims for Luftwaffe pilots

I am trying to find any info regarding the WW I service and claims for the following two pilots:

Oberst Alfred Helm served in Erprobungsstelle Werneuchen and claimed 3 victories at night on attachment to II./NJG 2 during the summer of 1942. He also claimed 3 victories during the First World War while serving as a Leutnant in 30./KG 5. This from Theo Boiten's Nachtjagd War Diaries.

Oberstleutnant Alexander von Winterfeld had 9 claims with JG 2, JG 52 & JG 77. According to Obermeier's Ritterkreuzträger der Luftwaffe he had previously claimed 4 during WW I, however no further details were provided. He is not listed in The Jasta Pilots by Franks, Bailey & Duiven.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Tom
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Old 20th July 2009, 01:12
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Sylvester Stadler Sylvester Stadler is offline
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Re: Looking for WW I claims for Luftwaffe pilots

The possibility exists that neither Helm nor von Winterfeld was a fighter pilot and thus would not be listed under the roles of the Jasta pilots. Since Helm was with KG 5, he may have been a crew member of a bomber and was credited with the kills as a air gunner. The same could be stated of von Winterfeld. Many times, the observer of a two-seater was the officer with the pilot being an enlisted man. He may have scored his kills as a gunner in such an aircraft, which includes the many types of two-seat recon aircraft. His name is not mentioned in the history of the Schlachtflieger! by Rick Duiven which includes a list of pilots and gunners who had scored kills.
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Old 21st July 2009, 02:51
Tom Semenza Tom Semenza is offline
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Re: Looking for WW I claims for Luftwaffe pilots

Sylvester,

Thanks for your comments. I had assumed that they were both crew members of multi-seaters.

Regards,
Tom
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Old 21st July 2009, 04:58
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: Looking for WW I claims for Luftwaffe pilots

Alfred Helm was an observer in Kaghol 5/30. Only his third victory is known to me, being on Sept 25, 1916, pilot unknown, location unknown. He is assumed to have been flying in a two seater, but this is not certain. The relevant records were lost during WW2.

Alexander von Winterfeld was a pilot in Jasta 20 at the end of the war. He is supposed to have had four victories but the source for this is unclear (and unknown to me). His name does not appear in the list of pilots published in Flugsport after the war, which listed all aircrew with four or more victories. It is assumed that his victories occurred in the Oct/Nov 1918 period, since the Nachrichtenblatt covered the war up through August 1918, and there exists a large amount of material covering September 1918.

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Old 21st July 2009, 20:25
Tom Semenza Tom Semenza is offline
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Re: Looking for WW I claims for Luftwaffe pilots

Frank,

Many thanks for your input. If I am reading you correctly, German claims for the last two months of the war are incomplete. I had not been aware of this before. So Winterfeld's claims, if they exist at all, may never come to light.

Regards,
Tom
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