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  #1  
Old 31st May 2010, 13:35
Iain Torrance Iain Torrance is offline
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Battle of Britain & France - Battle Pilots

As many of you know I focus on the Battle Squadrons in France, 1940. I thought it would be interesting to imagine a 'Battle of France Bar' - which I take as one operational flight between 10 May and 17 June from an areodrome in France - and see which Battle pliots would get that Bar and and a BoB Bar. My list below. Some impressive pilots !!

I've also added some pilots that came from Battle squadrons but I'm not certain they flew operationaly in France.

Welcome comments - and is there a list of Fairey Battle pilots that volunterred that I've overlooked in the official records?

Kind regards

Iain

First NamesSurnameNatBattle SquBoB SquHubert HastingsAdairBritish88213 & 151Sydney ErnestAndrewsBritish150257NormanBrumbyBritish103615Robert WiltonBungeyAus226145Thomas Daniel HumphreyDavyBritish12266 & 72Thomas BernardFitzgeraldNZ103141Walter Derrick KerrFranklinBritish14274James Chilton FrancisHayterNZ103605John MinchinHewsonBritish142616Dudley Sandry GartonHonorBritish88145Henry NutalllHoyleBritish226257John McCulloch MiddlemoreHughesBritish21825James Archibald FindlayMcLachlanBritish88145 & 73Spencer-RitchiePeacock-EdwardsSA150615Paul WattlingRaboneNZ88145Alan Leslie RicaltonBritish14274Vivian RobertSnellBritish103151Kenwyn RolandSuttonNZ142264James Mac GillTalmanBritish88213 &145From Battle Squ but Not Certain Flew in FranceRoger JEBoulding14274Raymond WalkerClarkeBritish22679Peter GuerinCroftsBritish150615BrianDaveyBritish150504, 32, 254Colin LoganBritish12266John ClaverlyMartinNZ98257
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Old 31st May 2010, 14:53
Iain Torrance Iain Torrance is offline
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Re: Battle of Britain & France - Battle Pilots

sorry this site is poor for text formatting just tried to upload as a excel file attachment

.
First Names Surname Nat Battle Squ BoB Squ
Hubert Hastings Adair British 88 213 & 151
Sydney Ernest Andrews British 150 257
Norman Brumby British 103 615
Robert Wilton Bungey Aus 226 145
Thomas Daniel Humphrey Davy British 12 226 & 72
Thomas Bernard Fitzgerald NZ 103 141
Walter Derrick Kerr Franklin British 142 74
James Chilton Francis Hayter NZ 103 605
John Minchin Hewson British 142 616
Dudley Sandry Garton Honor British 88 145
Henry Nutall Hoyle British 226 257
John McCulloch Middlemore Hughes British 218 25
James Archibald Findlay McLachlan British 88 145 & 73
Spencer-Ritchie Peacock-Edwards SA 150 615
Paul Wattling Rabone NZ 88 145
Alan Leslie Ricalton British 142 74
Vivian Robert Snell British 103 151
Kenwyn Roland Sutton NZ 142 264
James Mac Gill Talman British 88 213 &145

From Battle Squ but Not Certain Flew in France
Roger JE Boulding 1 4274
Raymond Walker Clarke British22679
Peter Guerin Crofts British150615
Brian Davey British150504, 32, 254
Colin Logan British12266
John ClaverlyMartinNZ98257
Attached Files
File Type: xls BoB List.xls (15.5 KB, 22 views)
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  #3  
Old 31st May 2010, 16:19
Martin Gleeson Martin Gleeson is offline
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Re: Battle of Britain & France - Battle Pilots

Hallo Iain,

I did a similar exercise a few months ago, purely for my own interest. I have some extra names and will post them tomorrow hopefully. I am heading out the door to work right now.

Regards,

Martin.

Last edited by Martin Gleeson; 31st May 2010 at 16:22. Reason: Hit the Send button too early - in a rush !
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Old 1st June 2010, 14:13
Martin Gleeson Martin Gleeson is offline
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Re: Battle of Britain & France - Battle Pilots

Hallo Iain,

A few months ago I was keen to learn how many and which Battle pilots went to Fighter Command in the summer of 1940. My main sources were Kenneth Wynn's 'Men of the Battle of Britain' (1989) and the Supplementary Volume (1993), plus some other works. Unfortunately I do not have the 2000 edition but am really looking forward to the new version this year.

The eight extra I have below are probably best decribed now as having 'served in France during the Phoney War and the May-June Campaign'. I was a little too quick off the mark, now realizing you meant those pilots who had flown at least operational sortie. Also two apparently flew only with 98 Squadron which would not qualify them for your list. One more flew with 98 Sqn. and then moved to 226 Squadron.

L.C. Allton 98 / 92
H.E. Black 226 / 32-257-46
R.J.E. Boulding 142 / 74
R.W. Clarke 226 / 79-238
D. Haywood 88 / 151-504
J.C. Martin 98 & 226 / 257
J.A. Patterson 226 / 92
D.M.A. Smythe 98 / 264

Of these I can only be sure of Haywood flying operationally during the French Campaign. He was shot down by fighters on 13 June 1940 (ref. 'TBoF,T&N' by Peter Cornwell).

On your list Adair and Snell are new to me, and very welcome. Other Battle pilots (at least five) who joined after their units returned from France also went to Fighter Command. Unfortunately at present I have access to only one Battle squadron (142) ORB for the period. Boulding does not appear to have flown operationally during the campaign.

Hope others can add to the list or expand on this thread.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.
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Old 6th June 2010, 12:30
Iain Torrance Iain Torrance is offline
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Re: Battle of Britain & France - Battle Pilots

Martin

Thanks very much for your list, by my count we now get the total up to thirty-one volunteers from Fairey Battle Squadrons who received BoB Bar (25 my list plus your extra 8 then less 2 double-counts)

Double counts are Boulding and Martin.

I have done checks on the others you mention but note Allton and Smythe were only at 98 Sq (the reserve squadron)

- Agree no record of Boulding flying operationally with 142 Squ from ORB.
- Can’t find anything in the ORBs for Black, Paterson or Clarke
- Agree Haywood for 88 Squ - ORB confirms for 13 June and he also crashed on take-off on 27 May
- For Martin there is a record of a Sgt Martin flying operationally as a pilot in the 226 ORB, earliest ref 13 May, but that’s an obvious red herring as J.C. Martin was a PO.

Of course doesn’t mean they all never flew operationally in France, just that there’s a need to find evidence. Be grateful if others can help on that.

Interesting point is that the criteria to be accepted as a volunteer for fighter command obviously did not include having operational experience !

Kind regards

Iain
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Old 7th June 2010, 15:42
Martin Gleeson Martin Gleeson is offline
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Re: Battle of Britain & France - Battle Pilots

Hallo Iain,

Thanks for your comments. I believe - from the information available at present - that at least 7 Battle pilots qualified for the BoB clasp who joined their (Battle) squadrons after these units returned from France.

C.E. Langdon 142 / 43
A.G. McIntyre 12 OTU / 111
D.C. MacKenzie 142 / 56
A.H. Milnes 12 / 32
T.P. Pugh 103 / 263
G.A. Stroud 150 / 504-32-249
R.W.M. Walsh (FAA) 142 / 111

McIntyre, a New Zealander, appears to have gone directly from 12 OTU to Fighter Command. Still technically a Battle unit, but definitely a Battle pilot. He does prove your last point however !

Pugh's case is not clear however. He appears to have joined 103 Squadron after his training was complete, which should be sometime in 1938 or 1939. There is no further mention until the comment that he was with 263 Squadron by early July 1940. All this detail comes from 'Men of ther Battle of Britain' (1st edition, 1989). This also notes that he claimed at least 2 aerial victories (DFC citation) but he has no entry in 'Those Other Eagles'. There is no entry for him in Kenneth Wynn's 'Supplementary Volume' (1993). Maybe some one with his 2000 edition can reveal further information ?
So Pugh could have seen service with 103 Squadron during The Phoney War and even during the May/June Campaign ?

Hope this helps,

Martin.
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Old 7th June 2010, 15:54
gedburke3 gedburke3 is offline
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Re: Battle of Britain & France - Battle Pilots

Hi,
Hope this helps.

PUGH, T. P. F/O - P/O - On 103 Sqdn, 18 September 1939; joined 263 Sqdn from 1 RAF Depot, 1 July 1940; promoted F/Lt, 16 September 1940; OC 'B' Flt (Hurricanes), September 1940; still on 263 Sqdn, November 1940.
PUGH, Thomas Patrick
Royal Air Force
Pilot
Flying Officer [12. 2.40]
40137
1181 RAF Depot
----------
-
1. 7.40
263 (F) Squadron RAF
1. 7.40
-
----------
OC ‘B’ Flight
30. 8.40
-
----------
Acting Flight Lieutenant
16. 9.40
British – RAF pupil pilot, 12 July 1937; granted a short service commission for four years in the General Duties Branch of the RAF as Acting Pilot Officer on probation, 5 September 1937; confirmed in appointment and graded as Pilot Officer, 12 July 1938



McINTYRE, P/O - Joined 111 Sqdn, 29 July 1940; detached from 111 Sqdn to Kenley for short instructional course, 30 July 1940; on 111 Sqdn, 1 November 1940
McINTYRE, Athol Gordon
Royal Air Force
Pilot
Pilot Officer [9. 4.40]
36257
12 Operational Training Unit RAF
----------
-
15. 7.40
under training
7 Operational Training Unit RAF
15. 7.40
-
29. 7.40
under training
111 (F) Squadron RAF
29. 7.40
-
15. 8.40
Attached
Kenley Sector Training Flight
30. 7.40
-
6. 8.40
conversion course
½ Do 215 Destroyed (confirmed)
13. 8.40
Wounded in action
15. 8.40
RAF Kenley/supernumerary
15. 8.40
-
24.10.40
Non-effective, sick
111 (F) Squadron RAF
24.10.40
-
----------
New Zealander - Granted a short service commission for four years in the General Duties Branch? of the RNZAF as Acting Pilot Officer on probation?, 12 September 1939; relinquished commission in the RNZAF and granted a short service commission for five years in the General Duties Branch of the RAF as Pilot Officer, 9 April 1940; arrived in the UK, 13 April 1940
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  #8  
Old 8th June 2010, 20:57
Iain Torrance Iain Torrance is offline
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Re: Battle of Britain & France - Battle Pilots

Gedburke 3

Thanks for the post on Pugh – had overlooked the 103 Squ connection.

I checked the 14 April 40 photo of 103 Squ Officers at Betheniville (ref IWM C 1498) and this photo includes Pugh. No reord of him flying operationally in the 103 Squ ORB (written on return to UK) and I’ve checked with David Fell at 103 Assocn. - he has nothing further.

Odds must be he did fly operationally in Battle of France, but can’t prove it !

Kind regards

Iain
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