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Old 10th August 2015, 20:40
ClinA-78 ClinA-78 is offline
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'Unknown' Bf 110 recovered in Belgium!

Hello,

I had the pleasure to manage my 11th recovery, on the 8th August : a Bf 110 G-4 crashed South of Binche at Buvrinnes (Belgium).
The dig was monitored, for the first time in Wallony, by the archaeological service of regional government, following a long administrative procedure.

Unfortunately, for more than 10 years, I was unable to ID this particular crash which remains unidentified up today : http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...ghlight=Binche.

We found nearly nothing of the aircraft (no wings, no fuselage, no cockpit, etc.)... just a great DB 605B (WNr. 37447), laying at 3,5 m depth, virtually intact, with an unique (never seen?) cover plate showing some unknown/strange data's. For instance, does "3606" point to a WNr. (it is quoted 3rd times) ?
Some marking on the crankcase showing "8.2.44", perhaps the manufacture date?

I guess this is a case of material loss with crew escaping by chute.

I know there are specialists of DB's products so I hope WNr.37447 will release its secret deeply buried for more than 70 years...

Now, Some holidays well deserved. Keep posting, I will reply in the following weeks.

Thanks of your attention.

Enjoy!

ClinA-78

Last edited by ClinA-78; 26th March 2016 at 17:17.
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Old 10th August 2015, 20:43
ClinA-78 ClinA-78 is offline
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Re: 'Unknown' Bf 110 recovered in Belgium!

Here is the beast.

ClinA-78

Last edited by ClinA-78; 26th March 2016 at 17:17.
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Old 10th August 2015, 21:51
Stephen M. Fochuk Stephen M. Fochuk is offline
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Re: 'Unknown' Bf 110 recovered in Belgium!

In other words, sounds like you found an engine that was buried, and nothing more?
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Old 10th August 2015, 23:11
S Sheflin S Sheflin is offline
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Re: 'Unknown' Bf 110 recovered in Belgium!

Hello ClinA-78,

Thank you for posting your most interesting photographs.

I am particularly intrigued by the casting markings visible on its crankcase: 601.104-002M, vis-à-vis the DB605B-1 designation on its engine Typenschild. Perhaps one of our resident experts can correct me if I am wrong, but all of the photos of DB605 crankcase casting markings that I have seen are in the form of: 605.xxx-xxx. Any further information on this detail will be greatly appreciated.

The unknown yellow numerals visible above “8 2 44” on its crankcase are possibly a modification and/or repair and the date performed.

Finally, the large aluminum plate with multiple lines and columns was probably a record of various updates and modifications and the date they were performed. I have seen other aircraft engines with similar record plates.

Steve Sheflin
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Old 11th August 2015, 08:25
ClinA-78 ClinA-78 is offline
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Re: 'Unknown' Bf 110 recovered in Belgium!

@ Stephen

The other relevant piece is a MG 151 with its distinctive cover for the canon tube. A clock-like pitch indicator (which was mounted in the engine cover) 'timing' 13H00 (fine pitch?).
About 60 kg of bits. In a nutshell, even less than Herget's Ju-88G. The Bergungskommando did a good job.

@ Steve
I will provide more details. Others engine parts start with "601..."
I would appreciate some 'translation' of figures on the cover plate.
This engine remains our only clue to ID this mysterious Bf 110

Thanks and bye for now.

ClinA-78
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Old 11th August 2015, 15:40
harrison987 harrison987 is offline
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Re: 'Unknown' Bf 110 recovered in Belgium!

If I recall correctly, the blocks were the same between the 601 and 605. It was only the internals that differed (valves and pistons). So I suspect this was an empty 601 block that was recycled as a 605 block.

There will be a lot of 601 part numbers on the 605, and many parts carried over.

Mike
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Old 11th August 2015, 18:59
Charles Bavarois Charles Bavarois is offline
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Re: 'Unknown' Bf 110 recovered in Belgium!

Hello ClinA-78

What you found is a „Reparaturschild an DB-Motoren“ (repair-plate on DB engines) which was introduced with Anweisung des Technischen Außendienstes Nr. 11/43 from March 1943. The Reparaturschild was to document the current technical condition of an engine in a prominent place und replaced the former yellow and red painted triangles or similar markings.

The upper, smaller column is for Grund- or Teilüberholungen (major or partly overhaul). On your engine the first row has a “G” for “Grundüberholung” and “3606” as a code for the repair-facility. Perhaps some Engine-buffs can tell us, what this was. Alterations done by Daimler-Benz Außendienst would have a “TA” in this place. The second row should have the flying-hours, but for some unknown reason is empty (as you did not find any other parts of an aircraft, this engine perhaps was an replacement-engine with "Zero" flying hours". The last row shows “244” for February 1944.

The lower, larger column documents what Änderungsanweisungen (instructions for alteration) were incorporated into the engine. Here first row is for the number of the RLM-Änderungsanweisung, second row the code of the repair-facility and third row again month and year.
On your engine ÄA (Änderungsanweisung) 101 was done at repairwork “3606” in February 1944 and the same with ÄA 187. Some other ÄA were not carried out, perhaps the engine had this alterations already incorporated when finished at the original manufacturer.

Carl
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Old 18th August 2015, 12:57
KrisJG3 KrisJG3 is offline
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Thumbs up Re: 'Unknown' Bf 110 recovered in Belgium!

Lets try with contact here:
http://media.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-9...0-0-0-0-0.html
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Old 28th August 2015, 16:02
ClinA-78 ClinA-78 is offline
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Re: 'Unknown' Bf 110 recovered in Belgium!

Hello,

Back from holidays.
Thanks for your attention, especially to Carl & Kris.
Sure, I will contact Daimler AG.

'13:19' may be the running time of this engine before modification Nr 187 occured on the same repair field ???
Does it mean the crash occured in the following weeks after the 8th February 1944?

Let's summarize :
Bf 110 G(-4)
lost in Buvrinnes (Belgium)
between 8th February (date on crankcase) and September 1944 (Liberation)
No (known) casualty (= material loss)

The front of both cylinders banks were painted in red and blue, for distinction I guess (as the left or right shoe?) ?
The engine was cleant and looks in surprising good condition. Amazingly, no mud into the crankcase only the original grease...

Best regards

ClinA-78

Last edited by ClinA-78; 26th March 2016 at 17:17.
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Old 29th August 2015, 12:16
ClinA-78 ClinA-78 is offline
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Re: 'Unknown' Bf 110 recovered in Belgium!

In order to rule out some ID possibility (beyond a material loss which remains my main hypothesis), I would like to know the circonstances of death (place unknown) of both airmen buried in Lommel:

Gefr SCHERZYMA Rudolf (+ 9th May 1944) 12./NJG 1
Obgefr RENZELBERG Karl (+ 10th May 1944) I./ZG 26

Thanks of your attention.

ClinA-78
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