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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#21
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Re: Peter Jenne & Rudolf Zwesken
Hi Johannes
Politely, I would say Brendel, Schack, Josten AND Hafner. I believe I posted a listing of Dahl's claims on an earlier thread. Either way, this is what I have compiled so far: Walther Dahl 22.6.41/0430 "I-18" W of Lemberg @ 1500m 23 or 28 IAP. Details pending 8.8.41/1330 DB-3 E of Majewo 11 DBAP? They suffered at least 5 losses, crews of Ml.Lt. A I Pykhtin, Serzhant A Evdokimov, Ml.Lt. P T Krashenninikov, Ml.Lt. Nikolay Ilyich Alimbarashvili and Serzhant N I Mineev all failed to return. Another possibility is 8 DBAP, crew of Lt. Ivan Yakovlevich Korovin which was definitely lost to fighters 24.8.41/0855 "I-180" S of Zaporozhe 162 IAP? They lost Ml.Lt. Andrey Panteleevich Tsaplagin KIA this date 14.9.41/0605 I-153 "Tchaika" Jelesawetowka/Mironovka area 44 IAD Staff. This was probably claimed against Leytenant Grigoriy Kotscha. Overclaiming, as he managed to escape (also appears to have been claimed by Gollob) 19.9.41/1357 SB-3 Kotschubjewka Possibly 316 ORAP. Crew of Ml.Lt. Yaroslav Leonidovich Bratolyubov Unconfirmed 2.4.42/1530 Hurricane ("Spitfire") Malta BV174 of 229 sqn. P/O Andrews returned to base with damage 26.8.42/0830 Yak-7B NW of Stalingrad @ 800m (Wilcke and Wessling claimed as well) Were these claimed against 900 IAP? They lost Lt. Viktor Alekseyevich Saburov KIA 7.9.42/1536 La-5 SW of Achtuba (PQ 49283) @ 2500m 3 GIAP or 27 IAP, 287 IAD, 8 VA. Definitely 3 La-5s lost this date 19.9.42/1144 Yak 1km SE of Kotluban @ 500m 8 VA (1 Yak-7B lost) or 16 VA (6 Yak-1s and 1 Yak-7B lost) or 102 IAD/PVO. 16 VA losses include Pavel Nikolaevich Bulaev of 520 IAP KIA and Ivan Yakovlevich Buldygin of 581 IAP 24.9.42/1103 and 1109 2 x Yak-1s Stalingrad – Dubovka 8 VA (no known losses) or 16 VA (8 Yak-1s lost) or 102 IAD/PVO. 16 VA's losses include Mikhail Stepanovich Bubnov of 43 IAP, Serzhant Peter Korneevich Sednev of 520 IAP and Ilya Mikhaylovich Yuzhakov (AE CO) of 812 IAP. All KIA 27.9.42/1603 Stalingrad @ 4500m 8 VA (1 IL-2 lost this date) or 16 VA (no known losses this date). 8 VA's loss was 944 ShAP, Serzhant Pavel Vasilyevich Sytov (Wilcke also claimed, so one must be an overclaim) 14.10.42/0707 and 0715 2 x IL-2 Sturmoviks 20-25km NW of Stalingrad Likely 245 ShAP. Losses include Evgeny Filippovich Baranov POW (liberated in January 1943). 954 ShAP lost Kapitan Arkady Ivanovich Buzev (AE CO) KIA There were about 5 claims in total 17.10.42/0915 Yak-1 50km NE of Stalingrad @ 2000m 512 IAP. Starshiy Leytenant Ignatiy Biryukov 25.10.42/1039 and 1421 2 x IL-2 Sturmoviks Krasnoarmejsk – Stalingrad 686, 807 and 945 ShAP, 206 ShAD? (definitely in action this day). Losses include MSgt Sudarkin of 945 ShAP, forcelanded 5km S of Prishchevka (already damaged by Flak, finished off by a Bf109). 944 ShAP lost St. Serzhant Nikolay Sergeevich Smirnov KIA 26.10.42/1402, 1407, 1408 and 1412 4 x IL-2 Sturmoviks Stalingrad – Beketovka Day's IL-2 losses include 206 ShAD's Sgt. Malyshev KIA over Sarpinskiy Island. 686 ShAP, 807 ShAP, 811 ShAP and 945 ShAP all in action this date. 505 ShAP lost Serzhant Alexei Nikolaevich Sipigin KIA this date 807 ShAP lost Pavel Dmitrievich Shurigin in an alleged taran this date 27.10.42/1000 Yak-1 12km E of Krasnaja Sloboda Day's losses in the Stalingrad sector include 11 IAP's Vitaliy Vasilievich Serkov KIA. Same unit lost Serzhant Vasily Ivanovich Titov on IL-2 escort mission and definitely to fighters was Nikolay Aleksandrovich Shershilov baled out failed to return 30.11.42/0810 and 0812 2 x IL-2 Sturmoviks Pitomnik – Kotluban 622 ShAP, 214 ShAD, 8 VA definitely in action over Pitomnik in the morning losing 6 planes and 5 crews including Kapitan Dobrokhotov and Serzhant Pyatiletov. 5 more were seriously damaged 15.4.43/1629 and 1630 2 x LaGG-3s Kuban bridgehead At least 9 LaGG-3s lost this day. 4 from 267 IAP, 2 from 979 IAP, 2 from 926 IAP and 1 from 269 IAP more specific info is impossible due to large number of claims/losses 29.1.44/1107 B-17 Flying Fortress Mannheim-Bastogne Definitely lost to fighters around this time was 42-31486 of 612th BS, 401st BG. 2/Lt. John Tannahill Jr and 7 others KIA, remaining 2 crewmen both POW 24.2.44/1312 2 x B-17 Flying Fortress HSS One of these was very likely B-17G-25-BO Flying Fortress 42-31666 "Poncho Thalken" of 96th BS, 2nd BG (damaged by fighter, ditched in the sea) 24.2.44/1320 P-38G-5-LO Lightning 30km SE of Steyr @ 5000m Likely 42-12815 of 95th FS, 82nd FG. George Milton Gearhard baled out near Windischgarten after combat with fighter identified as Fw190 24.4.44/1330 B-17F-115-BO Flying Fortress Augsburg area @ 6500m Most likely one of several claims for 42-30730/WW- of 369th BS, 306th BG. 2/Lt. David B Ramsey and crew all POW 24.4.44/1345 P-51B-5-NA Mustang near Muenchen @ 6500m This one likely one of several claims for 43-7103/OS-O of 357th FS, 355th FG. 2/Lt. Howard K Hillman KIA 15.8.44/1145 B-17 Flying Fortress Daun-Kyllberg area (PQ PO to QO) @ 6500m First one to be attacked was 42-31183/VK-Y "Bad Penny" of 358th BS, 303rd BG. 2/Lt. Arthur L Goss and one other KIA, remaining 7 crewmen all POW (this appears to be one of at least 6 claims for her) 15.8.44/1146 B-17G-5-BO Flying Fortress Koblenz area (PQ PP-PO-QO) @ 6500m Definitely down at 1146 was 42-31224/VK-F "Helen Heaven" 2/Lt. Samuel C Smithy and 4 others POW, remaining 4 crewmen all KIA 13.9.44 B-17 Flying Fortress (rammed) Believed to be overclaiming, possibly fiction. No known loss by ramming 6.10.44/1205 B-17G-40-VE Flying Fortress Naunen-Brandenburg (PQ FF-FG-GF) @ 8000m 551st BS, 385th BG. Was this 42-98010/Q of2/Lt. Deloy Taylor and crew all KIA except one man POW. Or possibly 43-38217/P of 2/Lt. Raymond W Tuley and 5 others KIA, 3 POW or 43-38430/N of 1/Lt. Donald J Andreas and 3 others KIA, 5 POW 26.4.45 P-51D Mustang Near Dilligen Was this 44-72967 of 354th FG? - Appears to be last Mustang lost in ETO, apparently attributed to Flak ...for any additions, corrections or updates, I would be most grateful. |
#22
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Re: Peter Jenne & Rudolf Zwesken
Hello gentlemen,
Quote:
The real losses during this timeframe were: 1. st.lt. M.G. Petrov (Airacobra, 45.IAP): according to his report, he was damaged in air combat, on the way home in the Kholmskaya area was attacked and shot down by a LaGG (friendly fire), baled out, received burns. According to WD of 45.IAP, it was not LaGG but FW190 (as far as I know, there were no claims of II./SchG1 at that timeframe). 2. st.sgt V.A. Bezbabnov (Kittyhawk, 45.IAP too): FTR 3. starshina G.M. Potanin (LaGG-3, 979.IAP): according to his report, was downed by Soviet AAA during his attack on Ju88 in the Abinskaya area, baled out, received a burn. 4. st.lt I.I. Protasov (Yak-1, 6.GIAP VVS ChF): slightly damaged in air combat. That is all. I have studied this day, so I know the details. For other episodes, only someone who has studied the respective days in detail on the respective areas can tell about the results. Obviously, in many cases (maybe most) the answers will be about the same - we can say something about the ratio of claims to actual results, but hardly about the success of a particular pilot. And this is a very time-consuming task. Unlike the German ones, too many Soviet documents survived the war, although in some cases they are still not enough. Best regards, Andrey |
#23
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Re: Peter Jenne & Rudolf Zwesken
Andrey,
May I ask if there were local police reports or newspaper reports from the period. Best, Ed West |
#24
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Re: Peter Jenne & Rudolf Zwesken
Hello Ed,
newspaper reports - yes, with photos of distinguished pilots, anti-aircraft gunners, downed German planes, etc. Unfortunately, the quality of newspaper images at that time left much to be desired. local police [militsia] reports - certainly yes, but I have never worked with them. Firstly, air defense reports are usually sufficient, secondly - I think militsia reports are less accessible and scattered in local archives. Best regards, Andrey |
#25
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Re: Peter Jenne & Rudolf Zwesken
Thank you Andrey.
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