Ultra Meldung NAGr 13 dated Sept. 28th 1944

[Rolfeb]

Hi All,

searching for a ULTRA report which explains that the 2./NAGr 13 moved from Freiburg to Donaueschingen during September 28th 1944.
The reason is that in Donaueschinger there were 2 airfields at that time. I'm not sure to which airfiel´d they moved.
Based on the book "Flugplätze der Luftwaffe" from J. Zapf they moved to Donaueschingen Süd. Not sure if this is correct.
I tend to beleive that they moved to Donaueschingen Nord.
Who can help to clearify?
Thanks in advance

Rolf

[Bruce Dennis]

Hello Rolf,
Do you know for sure that it is in an ULTRA document? If so, do you have the reference and date? (the document date may be after the move)

Bruce

[Nick Beale]

I've got something relating to the move to Freiburg:

CX/MSS/T317/95
HP 1135
To Special Staffel Kaatsch, Freiburg/Breisgau, from ANORO ((Jagdgruppe)) 200, Bierstadt near Wiesbaden: signed Oblt. Viemann, dated 23/9.
Request urgently information, when Staffel is to be replaced by 2/NAG 13, and when remaining elements of ANORO ((Jagdgruppe)) 200 can be withdrawn and disbanded.
NOTES:
1) For previous reference to the disbanding of JG 200 see T313/53.
2) 2 NAG 13 not recently reported. At the end of August it was resting and refitting at Landsberg. T289/83.

The first recorded op from there came on 5 October.

CX/MSS/T329/49
HP 2459
Dated 5/10:
UDIAN ((2/NAG)) 13, 1 Rotte, take off 1622 hours, Vesoul area.
NOTE: 2/NAG 13, refitting at Landsberg-Lech in August, was expected on 23/9 to replace Staffel Kaatsch Freiburg (T317/95). This is the first mention by Source of the Staffel returning to ops.

Give me a clue on the date and I may have something on the later transfer to Donaueschingen.

[Rolfeb]

Originally Posted by Bruce Dennis

Hello Rolf,
Do you know for sure that it is in an ULTRA document? If so, do you have the reference and date? (the document date may be after the move)

Bruce

Hi Bruce, I don’t have a reference. This is not given in the book. Juergen only mention “ULTRA report” in his book but no reference number

[Rolfeb]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

I've got something relating to the move to Freiburg:

CX/MSS/T317/95
HP 1135
To Special Staffel Kaatsch, Freiburg/Breisgau, from ANORO ((Jagdgruppe)) 200, Bierstadt near Wiesbaden: signed Oblt. Viemann, dated 23/9.
Request urgently information, when Staffel is to be replaced by 2/NAG 13, and when remaining elements of ANORO ((Jagdgruppe)) 200 can be withdrawn and disbanded.
NOTES:
1) For previous reference to the disbanding of JG 200 see T313/53.
2) 2 NAG 13 not recently reported. At the end of August it was resting and refitting at Landsberg. T289/83.

The first recorded op from there came on 5 October.

CX/MSS/T329/49
HP 2459
Dated 5/10:
UDIAN ((2/NAG)) 13, 1 Rotte, take off 1622 hours, Vesoul area.
NOTE: 2/NAG 13, refitting at Landsberg-Lech in August, was expected on 23/9 to replace Staffel Kaatsch Freiburg (T317/95). This is the first mention by Source of the Staffel returning to ops.

Give me a clue on the date and I may have something on the later transfer to Donaueschingen.

Hi Nick,

thanks a lot for your prompt reply.
Information I have is a bit confusing.
in Michael Holms site www.ww2.dk/air/recon/nagr13.htm I fount the follwing:

2./NAG 13 moved from Freiburg to Donaueschingen on September 30th. NAG 13 flew their missions from Donaueschingen until March 35.

Jürgen Zapf is writing in his book "Flugplätze der Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945, Band 10":
September 28th 1944, 2./NAG 13 is moving to Donaueschingen Süd (Hüfingen). He is using Michael Holm as souse as well but also writing "ULTRA-Meldung". No source for ULTRA is given.
Biggest question for me is: Was NAG 13 based in Donaueschingen Süd (Hüfingen) or in Donaueschinge Nord, which is more likely.
Second question: Which day is correct?
Thanks in advance
Rolf

[Nick Beale]

I don't know Zapf's book but while Michael Holm's site is incredibly useful (I refer to it all the time) it isn't infallible so it is always worth checking against other sources if you have them.

Regarding possible ULTRA confirmation, the first message to indicate that 2./NAG 13 was back in action was HP 2459 (which doesn't say where they took off from). You'll find that one on DEFE 3/234 which you can view or download free from that National Archives website. For the rest of October the file numbers run in sequence through to /244 if you want to look for the first mention on Donaueschingen. (If you get as far as November, the numbers are /300 to /313).

[Larry deZeng]

The link below may offer further insight, although it will not answer your question definitively.

See under Donaueschingen:

http://www.ww2.dk/Airfields%20-%20Germany%20[1937%20Borders].pdf

L.

[Rolfeb]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

The link below may offer further insight, although it will not answer your question definitively.

See under Donaueschingen:

http://www.ww2.dk/Airfields%20-%20Germany%20[1937%20Borders].pdf

L.

Thanks Larry,
it helps not really as I beleive everybody used the same source
Thanks again
Rolf