JG51 and I./JG53 losses - Eastern Front

[piters]

Hello!


Could you share with an information about JG51 and I./JG53 losses from 3 to 9 August 1944? Its Gruppen were scattered from East Prussia to Hungary and Romania at this time.


Thank to John Beaman, I have already got one record for this period:

Bf 109G-6, 16413, Konitzer, Uffz. Heinz, 3./JG 51, braune18 +, DQ+IB, 08-Aug-44, KIA due to Luftkampf with Jak-9s., Ring, JG 51 loss list, p.53, südöstlich Warka, 100%, F

Best regards,
Piotr

[piters]

Both Jagdgeschwader 51 and 53 are well-known units.
Nobody has the records I asked?

Thanks in advance for any assistance,
Piotr

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Piotr

I think the main reason that you haven't got an immediate response is due to two reasons mainly:

1. That Prien et al has produced an in depth study of the JG 53 on all fronts, and as mentioned Hans Ring has produced a volume on JG 51. People might hang back due to the fact that they might think you should check these readily available resources yourself first.

2. When it comes to losses in 1944, details are known by studying sources that are not readily available to 'everyone' - logbooks, VLM's, unit records in some cases etc. To build what comprises as a full list of these losses is timeconsuming and not easy.

I will help you out by quoting all losses reported to the Generalquartiermeister for the period you asked, but as I have not yet been able to incorporate all secondary sources into my database, these will be summary records only, listing date of loss, date reported, number of aircraft and category.

For details I suggest you start with the above mentioned works and fill in the list provided as well as you can.

I./J.G.53:
Loss date:#Unit:#No of Aircraft:#Category:#Report date:
08.08.1944#I./J.G.53#1#3#18.08.1944
08.08.1944#I./J.G.53#2#21#18.08.1944
09.08.1944#I./J.G.53#1#21#16.08.1944


J.G.51:

Loss date:#Unit:#No of Aircraft:#Category:#Report date:
03.08.1944#I./J.G.51#1#4#14.08.1944
04.08.1944#Stab/J.G.51#1#7#08.08.1944
04.08.1944#III./J.G.51#1#20#08.08.1944
04.08.1944#III./J.G.51#1#21#08.08.1944
05.08.1944#I./J.G.51#1#4#10.08.1944
05.08.1944#I./J.G.51#1#6#10.08.1944
05.08.1944#I./J.G.51#1#20#10.08.1944
05.08.1944#IV./J.G.51#1#1#11.08.1944
06.08.1944#Stab/J.G.51#1#4#13.08.1944
07.08.1944#IV./J.G.51#2#4#11.08.1944
07.08.1944#IV./J.G.51#1#12#11.08.1944
08.08.1944#I./J.G.51#1#4#14.08.1944 <- The loss you got details on from John
08.08.1944#III./J.G.51#1#21#14.08.1944
09.08.1944#III./J.G.51#1#21#16.08.1944



The list of categories is as follows:

1 Missing due to enemy action
2 Destroyed by anti-aircraft artillery on operational flight
3 Damaged by anti-aircraft artillery on operational flight
4 Destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, observed by enemy
5 Destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, not observed by enemy
6 Damaged by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, observed by enemy
7 Damaged by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, not observed by enemy
8 Destroyed by gunfire from enemy infantry on operational flight
9 Damaged by gunfire from enemy infantry on operational flight
10 Destroyed on the ground by enemy bomb
11 Damaged on the ground by enemy bomb
12 Destroyed on the ground by gunfire from enemy aircraft
13 Damaged on the ground by gunfire from enemy aircraft
14 Destroyed on the ground by enemy gunfire from ground forces
15 Damaged on the ground by enemy gunfire from ground forces
16 Destroyed by other enemy action
17 Damaged by other enemy action
20 Destroyed without enemy action on operational flight
21 Damaged without enemy action on operational flight
22 Destroyed without enemy action on non-operational flight
23 Damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight

Regards,
Andreas B

[yogybär]

I only know Books by Ring about African & JG27 and a book by Aders/Held on JG51...

Originally Posted by Andreas Brekken

[...] Hans Ring has produced a volume on JG 51. [...]

Where can this be found?

[Andreas Brekken]

Too many books, and too little time....

I was of course referring to the Aders/held volume.

Sorry!

[yogybär]

Thank you, Andreas. I found a loss-list in that book. which is in my shelf already for years. But a lot of information given below is not contained in that list:

Originally Posted by piters

Bf 109G-6, 16413, Konitzer, Uffz. Heinz, 3./JG 51, braune18 +, DQ+IB, 08-Aug-44, KIA due to Luftkampf with Jak-9s., Ring, JG 51 loss list, p.53, südöstlich Warka, 100%, F

"Jak-9", "braune 18", Werknummer and Stammkennzeichen are missing - at least in my book (2. Auflage). So again a question from my side:

Where can the above quoted list be obtained?

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi.

Possibly the VLM for the pilot or a logbook, KTB or similar.

Regards,
Andreas B