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  #1  
Old 3rd July 2012, 17:15
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Seeking info on losses of three RAF Wellingtons and a Whitley over Germany on night of Sept 30-Oct 1, 1940

Hello,

I'm posting this on both the Allied and Luft Boards as it pertains to operations on both sides.

Working with the British a/c loss data base that Peter Cornwell is compiling for the "Eagles Over Europe" (EoE) project, we have the losses of the following three Wellingtons on the night of Sept. 30 - Oct 1, 1940, over Germany:


"38 Squadron, Marham

Wellington IC R3219. Shot down by night-fighter during sortie to attack on Leuna oil refinery at Merseburg. Pilot Officer D. Maclean killed, Sergeant S. A. Williams, Sergeant J. Tipping, Sergeant V. F. Gammon, Sergeant J. Hamilton, and Pilot Officer W. T. Mathieson all captured. Aircraft HD*Q a write-off.
These three losses can all be attributed to night-fighters, Oberlt Werner Streib (Staffelkapitän) of 2./NJG1 claiming one Wellington over Bersenbrück, 14km south of Quakenbrück, at 9.49 p.m. and another over Menslage, 12km west of Quakenbrück, at 10.21 p.m. while Oberlt Heinrich Griese (Staffelkapitän) of 1./NJG1 claimed another Wellington over Löningen, 17km north-west of Quakenbrück, at 11.38 p.m.

115 Squadron, Marham

Wellington IC R3292. Shot down by night-fighter during sortie to attack on marshalling yards at Osnabrück. Sergeant C. Wessels, Sergeant N. W. G. Thompson, and Sergeant A. D. Cameron all killed, Sergeant Alan Jervis Pennington, Sergeant James George Campbell MacNair, and Sergeant Harold William Pritchard all missing. Aircraft KO*F a write-off.

Wellington IC T2549. Shot down by night-fighter during sortie to attack on marshalling yards at Osnabrück. Sergeant C. Dowsett missing, Sergeant L. G. Goldie, Sergeant J. Le B. R. Walter, and Sergeant D. E. Westwood all killed, Pilot Officer A. J. J. Steel and Sergeant R. P Mogg both captured. Aircraft KO*K a write-off."

There was apparently a fourth Bomber Command loss that night, a Whitley, which has also been attributed to Strieb. The same questions (items #2 and 3) below pertain to this loss:

"10 Squadron, Leeming

Whitley V T4130. Shot down over Badbergen by Oberlt Werner Streib of 2./NJG1 during night sortie to Berlin 10.19 p.m. Sergeant V. Snell and Sergeant G. L. Ismay both killed, Sergeant W. D. Chamberlain, Sergeant A. S. Shand, and Sergeant R. E. Nicholson all captured. Aircraft a write-off."

1) Has anyone researched these specific actions sufficient to reasonably attribute which victory claim represents which Wellington?

2) Are the actual loss times, and specific crash locations known for any of these three losses?

3) Are photos of the crash sites of any of these three Wellingtons known to exist?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Regards,
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Old 3rd July 2012, 21:36
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Seeking info on losses of three RAF Wellingtons and a Whitley over Germany on night of Sept 30-Oct 1, 1940

Larry

As per Theo Boiten and his Nachtjagd War Diaries Luftwaffe made sort of five claims that night.

Werner Streib of 2./NJG 1 claimed
Wellington near Bersenbrück 22.49H (prob Wellington T2549)
Hampden near Bad Bergen 23.19H (Whitley T4130)
Wellington at Menslage 23.21H (either R3219 or R3292)

Heinrich Griese of 1./NJG 1 claimed
Wellington near Löningen 12km NW Quakenbrück 00.38H (see above)

Griese also made a claim together with another pilot only recorded as Kollak of a twin-engined aircraft at 01.00H, which turned out to have been a Ju 88 where the crew managed to escape unharmed. Needless to say that claim was not allowed...

B Rgds
Stig
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Old 4th July 2012, 09:59
Henk Welting Henk Welting is offline
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Re: Seeking info on losses of three RAF Wellingtons and a Whitley over Germany on night of Sept 30-Oct 1, 1940

Larry,

This was in the German newspaper "Bramscher Nachrichten" of 2-10-1940:

............"Eine Volkswanderung setzte natürlich zu den Aufschlagstellen ein. Die eine Maschine liegt in der Nähe des Hauses Stübbe in Badbergen, gegenüber Tierarzt Dr. Wehmeyer (T4130, Henk), eine weitere in Nähe des Hofes Meyer zu Devern in Grothe (Post Badbergen), eine dritte bei Hegewisch, in der Nähe Gieske, Talge/Kreis Bersenbrück (R3292 and T2549, Henk). Eine vierte Maschine ist in Heinrich Weymanns Weide im Herzberger Zuschlag (Zuschlag nahe Quakenbrück) heruntergekommen. Von den Besatzungsmitgliedern konnten bislang 5 gefangen genommen werden, die sich durch Fallschirmabsprung aus den brennenden Maschinen gerettet hatten. Ein Engländer wurde bereits in der Nacht ins Evangelischer Krankenhaus (in Quakenbrück, Henk) eingeliefert und hat nun Zeit über sein Erlebnis nachzudenken". (R3219, Henk).

It was Reargunner P/O William T. MATHIESON - 43949 - PoW 357-399 who was in the Evangelischer Krankenhaus in Quakenbrück from 1-10-1940 until 7-1-1941.

I've a 'working out' of a map from that area and could try to scan if you want. Send PM we48592ATkickmailDOTnl (replace AT and DOT by obvious).

Do hope Larry this info may be worthwhile for your further research.
Best regards,
Henk.
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Old 4th July 2012, 17:54
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Seeking info on losses of three RAF Wellingtons and a Whitley over Germany on night of Sept 30-Oct 1, 1940

Henk.

Thanks for the contact info. I've sent you a direct email with my email address for further communications about this. I would definitely appreciate any further information that would help us tell more fully what happened on this date. From a rough "Google Word Monkey" translation of the German text posted above, it seems that the crash locations can probably be worked out, hopefully, attributing each of them to the correct a/c and crews.

If anyone can help with photos of these crashes, I would appreciate hearing from them. I'd also like to do a color profile Streib's nightfighter from this period, so if anyone can help with codes, W.Nr., and/or photos of his a/c I would appreciate any help on that.

Thanx as always. Making good progress on this one.
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Old 10th July 2012, 17:57
Henk Welting Henk Welting is offline
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Re: Seeking info on losses of three RAF Wellingtons and a Whitley over Germany on night of Sept 30-Oct 1, 1940

Larry,
Scan on crash locations mailed today in your PM. Success with your further research.
Regards,
Henk.
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Old 10th July 2012, 18:27
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Larry Hickey
Re: Seeking info on losses of three RAF Wellingtons and a Whitley over Germany on night of Sept 30-Oct 1, 1940

Henk,

Thanx for sending this. It came through fine. I've forwarded a copy on to Peter Cornwell for use in the loss listings. I hope that you're feeling better. Have you done similar work with other early British plane losses over Germany (1939-40?).

Warm regards,
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