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  #1  
Old 3rd October 2011, 13:58
Marcel Hogenhuis's Avatar
Marcel Hogenhuis Marcel Hogenhuis is offline
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He219 and Flugzeug Überführungsgeschwader 1

Dear all,

For an ongoing He219 research project, I would love to know more about the ferry flights and losses of the Flugzeug Überführungsgeschwader 1 with this He219. What I understood so far, is that Gruppe 'Südost' of this unit transferred the He219's from Heinkel Vienna (Wien-Schwechat) to other units and that Gruppe 'Nord' did the same for He219's coming from Heinkel Rostock.

I am particulary interested in:
- He219 flights in logbooks (dates, callsign, from/to etc.)
- losses with He219's of this Geschwader

Some contributors already have sent several pieces of this puzzle, but perhaps other data might be known among others.

The He219 database constructed so far has led to many new insights about the numbers produced, the fates of individual aircraft. It also is an invaluable tool to check photocaptions of other He219 publications and to dismantle some very popular (and widely copied) myths.

Any help provided is much appreciated and will be quoted accordingly in the database! Best regards,

Marcel Hogenhuis
marcelhogenhuis[at]gmail.com
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Old 3rd October 2011, 14:50
RodM RodM is offline
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Re: He219 and Flugzeug Überführungsgeschwader 1

Hi Marcel,

ULTRA CX/MSS/R.454/A/22 in HW 5/659 has the following about He219 A7 310210 on 3/2/45:

"3. North A/c Ferrying Geschwader 1 (note - 3./Fl.ÜG 1 / Gruppe Nord) Rostock-Marienehe. Marking KZ+UP. Crew: PRELLER HEINZ Obfw. and Pilot. Rest of crew: FRITZ WEIGEL. A/c made emergency landing 2000 metres S.E. Vorbach-Beugreven on 3/2. 25% damage"

As far as I can tell, this is the only 1945 message relating to Fl.ÜG 1 and the He219.

Cheers

Rod
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  #3  
Old 3rd October 2011, 16:46
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Marcel Hogenhuis Marcel Hogenhuis is offline
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Talking Re: He219 and Flugzeug Überführungsgeschwader 1

Hello Rod,

Marvelous! If you were a girl and not living down under, I could kiss you. These sort of gems are really most helpful:
1) because of the Stkz. We did know that the KZ+Ux range had to be sought somewhere among He219 A-7's but not exactly where.
2) because of the date: we know of several deliveries of Stkz. with dates > now that this Stkz. has a Werkenummer identity, a fair educated guess will reconstruct yet another part of the production
3) though 'Vorbach-Beugreven' doesn't ring a bell, it might well be that 'bei Greven' was meant which is not far from Münster-Handorf, where the I./NG 1 was stationed
4) the amount of damage of this 310210 is not much, so I will check my database if the plane returns in later records.

Now that you see what one single Ultra message can do, don't hesitate to send me the 1944 entries too!!!

MANY THANKS, I am really appreciating this jewel of information. All the best,

Marcel
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Old 4th October 2011, 21:06
Karl Karl is offline
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Re: He219 and Flugzeug Überführungsgeschwader 1

Dear Rod,

also a big thank you from my side. This kind of information is most welcome. I can only support Marcel´s comments.

Best wishes, Karl
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  #5  
Old 6th October 2011, 17:15
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Re: He219 and Flugzeug Überführungsgeschwader 1

Hi All,
Vorbach is propably Vor Bach which means just prior to a creeck and Beu could well be Bei so near Greven.

Regards,

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert Schuchbauer; 6th October 2011 at 17:18. Reason: Spelling
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Old 9th October 2011, 13:23
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Re: He219 and Flugzeug Überführungsgeschwader 1

Another two He 219s I've just come across in Ultra, reference CX/MSS/R.531 (A) paragraph 10:

13 April 1945: He 219, W.Nr. 097, 80% damaged by enemy action at Flensburg.

21 April 1945: He 219 A-2, W.Nr. 420328, G9+OL, I./NJG 1 (Westerland), 60% damage.

These are just entries in a list, there are no more details than these, unfortunately.
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  #7  
Old 11th October 2011, 15:49
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Marcel Hogenhuis Marcel Hogenhuis is offline
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Re: He219 and Flugzeug Überführungsgeschwader 1

Dear Karl, Norbert and Nick,

First thanks for your comments and support, I also thought of 'vor Bach bei Greven' because it would make sense that a plane produced in Rostock during its delivery to Münster-Handorf could have made an emergency landing before reaching its destiny. The only doubt is the very detailed description of this landing 'near a creek' without specifying which creek. So that info is quite unrelevant it seems.

On the other hand: the combination of 'Vorbach' and 'Beugreven/Beigreven' makes no sense either...

At the moment I accept Norberts explanation as most likely version, having no credible alternatives.

Nick, the identities of both He219 named in Ultra are these:
'097' refers either to 190097 (there are other examples of He219's with only the last three digits on the tail section) or He219A-097 which would mean that Wnr. 190225 was meant. I do hope the last option is correct, that would imply another identified fate of a He219 because so far I have no single reference/report for 190225.
The He219 (Wnr. 420328, a He219A-2 produced in Schwechat) was flown by Hptm. Alex Graf Ressequier and was damaged by a RAF Mossie.

All the best, Marcel
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Old 2nd November 2011, 00:40
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Re: He219 and Flugzeug Überführungsgeschwader 1

Another reference to an He 219 "097" from Ultra, this time in January 1945.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 219-097.jpg (274.5 KB, 111 views)
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  #9  
Old 2nd November 2011, 16:05
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Marcel Hogenhuis Marcel Hogenhuis is offline
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Re: He219 and Flugzeug Überführungsgeschwader 1

Hello Nick,

As always you come up with something interesting and this fits to the data Rod McKenzie gaves us via the LEMB of Pete Evans a while ago:http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...howtopic=10405

Seeing the message itself is wonderful and one wonders which other treasures may be in the ULTRA earlier in 1944...

All the best, Marcel
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