I./ZG 1 claims in 1939 - 1940 - any info?

[Franek Grabowski]

Evgeniy, no time, which is crucial in this case. There were two separate combats over the exact place but within one hour.

Okay, I read it. It seems Lapkowski couldn`t remember the mission exactly. He wrote it from his mind long after the campaign`s end. According to this Nowakowski and Okrzeja should have collided as they fought against I./KG 2. But this collision cannot be true.

What is long after and why your statements are so definite?

There were two sections of 112 eskadra. The first fought in the Wyszkow area (north-east of Warsaw) against I./KG 2 (Okrzeja,Lokuciewski,Lech,Lapkowski,Daszewski,Strz embosz), the second in the Zakroczym area (north-west of Warsaw) against IV./LG 1 with escort of I./ZG 1 (Opulski,Nowakowski,Krawczynski,Gorecki,Cichocki). Both sections fought against German formations at the same time and this could be the reason for much confusion done by Polish authors.
Kpt.Opulski wrote something very interesting about the fight of his section (Pawlak published it in "Polskie eskadry"). Also Lokuciewski of the other section saw the death of his comrade Okrzeja and described it in his memoires. Nothing about a collision.

Now, could you state original sources for those statements (neither is from the Polish Campaign)? Could you explain the difference between older source (Pawlak 1991) and newer (Cynk 2000)? The latter states that the sections were Okrzeja, Łokuciewski, Nowakowski and Łapkowski, Górecki, Gallus? How about statement of Łaszkiewicz, who noted Okrzeja was hit by own A.A.?

This is not true. Look to the original document of Brygada Poscigowa for the 5th Sept., 17.00 hours:
kpr.Gorecki damaged forcelanded [I./ZG 1],
pchor.Nowakowski shot down [I./ZG 1],
por.Okrzeja shot down [I./KG 2],
st.szer.Cichocki crashlanded [I./ZG 1]
Nothing about a collision.

This exactly confirms my words. Two aircraft were destroyed and few more damaged. The document filed almost at the time of combat cannot be entirely reliable when discussing the cause and it would be ridiculous to draw conclusions from a single piece of paper. There are also other statements and documents, which should not be disregarded.

Also this Polish document brings a little bit confusion. But when you compare this with German records, many questions find their answers;
The document only reports about a fight between 5 P.11 and 3 Dornier Do 215 (sic!). This was surely the section of kpt.Opulski (5 pilots). The 3 Do 215 were in fact 3 Ju 87 of IV./LG 1. According to the document 1 Do 215 flew away with smoking engine. Indeed, 1 Ju 87B of IV./LG 1 was damaged and forcelanded on Polish territory.
There is nothing about the other fight between 6 P.11 and Do 17`s of I./KG 2. The reason is - I suppose - exactly the same time of both engagements. And the mission was counted as one although two sections of the unit flew in two different directions.

This is just ridiculous - there are Polish documents that clearly state it was 111 Eskadra which fought against Ju 87s at the very same time.

Could you quote some sentences? What is the date of the document?

The diary says clearly that Dyon 'attacked over the airfield enemy bomber raid consisting about 30 aircraft - Dorniers and Ju 87s - returning from a bombing.'
It also states: 'Kpt. Leśniewski downed "Ju 87", but attacked by few, defended himself for a long time, and was shot down.' A comment 'M.110' was added later, probably at Salon by Rolski. Similar additions appear in other documents and a different ink is clearly visible.

Really? In the original combat report from 4th Sept. kpt. Rolski wrote about 3 Messerschmitt 110 which attacked a single fighter of his unit. He shot at the aircraft without any result. (IPMS, Lot. AII.15/1b-11)

I cannot find this particular report, but as noted above, corrections were added to several documents and this could be the case.

We do not know the exact hour of claims reported by 1.Staffel (J)/LG 2. But many Polish pilots wrote later they fought against Bf 109`s (later combat).
Apparently the earlier combat was fought against Ju 87`s of 9./StG 2, the later against Ju 87`s of 7. and 8./StG 2 and Bf 109`s.
Polish losses were the following:
por.Pisarek damaged forcelanded [9./StG 2],
ppor.Pniak damaged forcelanded,
ppor.Kogut damaged forcelanded,
kpt.Lesniewski shot down [1.(J)/LG 2]

Who is the many? I recall only Skalski. In the reports I have, there is no single mention of any Messerschmitt, be it 109 or 110. Also, no Polish document link any loss with any particular German unit.
Do I have to repeat ad nauseam that Pniak in his report dated 4.09.1939 clearly states that he fought against twin engined aircraft and that this is in agreement with a report of Rolski filed in Salon one and a half month later? Also it looks diary of the unit states it was Do 17 and only later someone corrected the entry to Ju 87.
Finally, it was you, who excluded possibility of joint Me 109/Me 110 escort, which leads to the clear conclusion.

I am afraid that further discussion leads nowhere. You have not seen a single Polish document, not to mention any knowledge about what has survived. Instead you deny any information included there, based on outdated books. When I wrote a comment to your article on III/4 Dyon, based on documents and not books, and giving reference to every single original document, your only comment was - it is worthless. How one can argue with you?