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  #11  
Old 6th November 2021, 22:06
Del Davis Del Davis is offline
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Re: Bf 109 mit marking for 13 ships sunk

Based upon Huy's dark camouflage and that of other aircraft in the III./JG-77, I would say that is an aircraft from that group. Also although this score does not match the ship count on Huy's known rudders, the shape and features of the ship profiles is consistent with his. This theory would place this aircraft in III./JG77 in Romania in summer / fall 1941
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  #12  
Old 6th November 2021, 22:20
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: Bf 109 mit marking for 13 ships sunk

I would like to offer another theory. A complete repaint when the number of ships sunk reached this number.
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  #13  
Old 6th November 2021, 23:11
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FalkeEins FalkeEins is offline
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Re: Bf 109 mit marking for 13 ships sunk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Davis View Post
Also although this score does not match the ship count on Huy's known rudders, the shape and features of the ship profiles is consistent with his.

..the two rudders side by side. Huy's scoreboard is on the right pictured after his RK award - should be 9 but I've chopped off a small silhouette at the bottom. All of the JG 77 'aces' rudders with ships had the 'classic' Balken for aerial victories too though so Ed's theory might be a possibility

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  #14  
Old 7th November 2021, 00:06
Maciej Góralczyk Maciej Góralczyk is offline
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Re: Bf 109 mit marking for 13 ships sunk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner View Post
By the way, I asked the seller if he can inform the werknummer of the machine so we will be able to find its unit and possibly its pilot....but he had not answered me yet.
It's likely a Bf 109 F or early G, these very rarely carried WNr. on the starboard side of the tailfin, so I suppose that the seller won't have anything for you. The aircraft type, dark overall camouflage scheme (note the masked off 'Hier aufbocken' stencil) and those ship kill markings (BTW, what is the last symbol? It more resembles an armoured train wagon) may point to III./JG 77 as the owner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FalkeEins View Post
All of the JG 77 'aces' rudders with ships had the 'classic' Balken for aerial victories too though so Ed's theory might be a possibility
...with the exception of (at some point) Ubben's 'Black 13' - see LuGa 6 p.39. Perhaps Huy got a similar repaint, with the ship being moved to the starboard side of the rudder? However, his G-2 from the African journey still has only 9 ship silhouettes...

It is also worth noting that the rudder of Huy's WNr. 8282 was at some point separated and perhaps shipped home for preservation:
https://me109.info/display.php?a=e&fid=16910

Last edited by Maciej Góralczyk; 7th November 2021 at 00:16. Reason: additional info
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  #15  
Old 7th November 2021, 01:24
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Bf 109 mit marking for 13 ships sunk

Falke Eins and Maciej,

Thanks for your ideas, which enhance the possibilities.
I also noticed the "similar armored train silhouette" (the last one)...and at least two ferry boats sunk.

I really did not know that late F models and early G models did not have the werknummer on the right side of rudder. This is new for me. This is why this Forum is simply amazing, because we do have experts on every kind of field here, linked together by this same passion.

So, we do have some candidates here:
a) werknummer 4931
b) werknummer 8282

Is there any "historical facts or information" about those two particular machines?

The theory of this being a former "Huy" machine later flown by another JG 77 airman who added his own scorer onto the rudder can not be discarded, most particularly when new machines were being received and the old ones passed to young replacement pilots (we can remember the Emil of Galland with full scoreboard being flown by another young pilot).

Sadly on both Huy's machine and onto this one, the sinking DATES were not added, as on some "Abschüss rudder markings". This would have helped us to check if this machine matches Huy's claims....

Anyway...a wonderful picture and I hope we will be able to, eventually, find the possible pilot who flew it. If there was a werknummer it would be much easier for us....

Good luck for the new owner of this amazing photo...maybe he can solve the issue later.

A.
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  #16  
Old 7th November 2021, 01:31
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Bf 109 mit marking for 13 ships sunk

Falke Eins,

Just for curiosity...on Huy's shipping scoreboard, it seems we do have either the "tonnage" or the name of the shipping or date written inside each boat white symbol...am "imagining that" or am seeing actually something written inside of each boat symbol? This is the first time I see his rudder at very close range.

And what happened to werknummer 8282 rudder?

A.
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  #17  
Old 7th November 2021, 01:40
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: Bf 109 mit marking for 13 ships sunk

Here is a look at W. Nr. 8282.

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109F/...n-1942-05.html
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  #18  
Old 8th November 2021, 04:43
ssg keay ssg keay is offline
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Re: Bf 109 mit marking for 13 ships sunk

Maybe he attacked row boats on the Seine?
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  #19  
Old 22nd November 2021, 18:24
James A Pratt III James A Pratt III is offline
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Re: Bf 109 mit marking for 13 ships sunk

From Barbarossa to Odessa
page 136 picture of Ollt Woldieter Huy Staffelkapitan of 7/ JG 77 Bf 109F-4 W.Nr 8334 White 1 score on rudder 8 ships and 9 aircraft photo taken between 23-25 July 1941. The plane is painted a dark color like the above photos of Bf 109s

Page 183 has 5 and 7/JG77 trained in 1940 to operate in the dive bombing role. Took part in Operations Martia and Merkur and did fly some anti shipping ops in the early Russian campaign period.
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