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Old 30th July 2005, 01:11
david Cotton david Cotton is offline
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MARSEILLE his last kill

Hello all
I have been reading the schiffer book on Hans Joachim Marseille and am now very interested in his last kill, no 158.

The book says that the way Marseille's opponent attacked clearly indicated that he was an expert. The two pilots parralled each other equelly matched. After a long duel Marseille finaly shot down the Spitfire and the pilot did not get out. When he landed the ground crew were horrified to see he looked like a ghost and that his hands were trembeling. He described the spitfire pilot as a masterful adversery.

Just who was this British pilot ? does any one fit the bill ???
Maybe the question has been asked before, but Im a new boy !

Regards
David
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Old 30th July 2005, 11:45
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Andy Mac Andy Mac is offline
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Re: MARSEILLE his last kill

Hi David - this sounds fascinating, what was the date of the combat, I don't have the book.

Andy.
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Old 30th July 2005, 14:09
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FalkeEins FalkeEins is offline
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Re: MARSEILLE his last kill

..date is 26 September, four vics in the morning, three in the afternoon..Kurowski (author of the Schiffer book) unfortunately doesn't write history ...however in this instance his eulogy closely mirrors the Ring/Girbig account (JG27 P233) and is based on Fritz Dettmann's 1944 book "Mein Freund Marseille"..almost word for word.. Dettmann also describes Marseille's 150th as a Spitfire ace..the hardest combat he'd ever fought..

Last edited by FalkeEins; 30th July 2005 at 14:22.
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Old 30th July 2005, 14:09
Christer Bergström Christer Bergström is offline
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Re: MARSEILLE his last kill

Due to Shores's and Ring's "Luftkampf zwischen Sand und Sonne" (German edition of "Fighters over the Desert"), no Allied unit has been identified which would match the German combat report.
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Old 30th July 2005, 14:11
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: MARSEILLE his last kill

I am not sure if it is the combat but on the old forum Russell Guest noted it was likely 601 Sqn and suffered no losses.
I think Marseille's abilities are grossly overrated.
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Old 30th July 2005, 14:46
robert robert is offline
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Re: MARSEILLE his last kill

Hi all,

in Walter Wuebbe`s book "Marseille ein Jagdfliegerschicksal in Daten..." Marseilles last air combat took place with eleven Spits V from 145 RAF and 601 RAF. One Spit from 601 RAF was in this combat damaged.
On 03.06.42 Marseille shoot down in space of 11 minutes 4 Tomahawks from 5 SAAF (AK384,AK421,AM401 and AN262) and badly damaged 2 others which belly landed.
So Frank its common ability? I think that this is a example of almost perfect ability. I think that you fisrt of all overate yourself.

Regards

Robert
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Old 30th July 2005, 15:27
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Andy Mac Andy Mac is offline
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Thumbs up Re: MARSEILLE his last kill

Hi Robert,

I thought the SAAF claimed on that date in question they hadn't had any p-40 losses ? I may be wrong.
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Old 30th July 2005, 15:34
Christer Bergström Christer Bergström is offline
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Re: MARSEILLE his last kill

Robert, "Luftkampf zwischen Sand und Sonne" shows several similar examples. For instance, Marseille's first combat in the morning of 1 September 1942:

Together with his wingman, Marseille attacked the Hurricanes of 238 and 1 SAAF sqn. He started with 1 SAAF Sqn and shot down two, at 08.26 and 08.28 hours. These were flown by Lt Bailey and Major Metelerkamp (an ace with 5 victories).

Next, Marseille attacked 238 Sqn and shot down F/O Matthews (238 Sqn) at 08.35 hours.

Following this, Marseille and his wingman were attacked by six Spitfires from 601 Sqn. Marseille allowed the Spitfires to approach from behind until the distance was 150 metres. Then he banked sharply to the left, which caused the Spitfires to overshoot him, and attacked from behind - shooting down the Spitfire piloted by P/O Bradley-Smith at 08.39 hours.

When Marseille landed, it was established that he had used 80 cannon shells and 240 machine gun bullets for those four victories. These were Marseille's victories Nos 105 - 108. When the day was over, this total had risen to 121.

Due to "Luftkampf zwischen Sand und Sonne", it seems as though most of Marseille's 17 victories on 1 September 1942 can be verified through Allied sources.
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Last edited by Christer Bergström; 30th July 2005 at 15:37.
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Old 30th July 2005, 15:43
Don Pearson Don Pearson is offline
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Re: MARSEILLE his last kill

Most accounts agree that at this time JG 27 was flying at a frenetic pace. Regardless of the accuracy of the claims, all could agree that Marseille was definitely involved in many combats in September 1942, and the sources all point out that he had reached the point of exhaustion. With this in mind, his flying skills would not be at their peak, he would be prone to making mistakes, and an adversary of lesser skill could be construed as an expert...it is all relative.


Don
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Old 30th July 2005, 15:43
robert robert is offline
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Re: MARSEILLE his last kill

Yes Christer I know that. I want to show our "Besserwisser" only one simply example.

Regards

Robert
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