Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

[Karoband]

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=951

130. No. 4 is Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 110766 Red 1 of 2./KG 51 (listed as being with JV 44 at München-Riem on 26 April 1945). This is a photo of its original situation at Hotting. Note the intact canopy and nose gear, two white gun rectangles and nose colours, the white line indicating I. Gruppe and the red tip indicating 2. Staffel.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=952

131. This photo shows how Red 1 was dragged to its place beside White 12. Note the lack of bomb racks. It can be readily identified by its forward splayed nose gear.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=953

132. A close-up of Red 1's tail shows its werknummer. Note the late production tail light bulb.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=954

133. No. 5 is Me 262 A-1a White 12 (W.Nr. unknown to me). Note its collapsed nosewheel and flattened nose.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=955

134. A view of the starboard side of White 12 shows damage to the engine nacelle and lower nose. Note the over-painted nose cone and the small, dak-coloured nose cap similar to that of W.Nr. 500531 at Hörsching-Linz

[Dan O'Connell]

Excellent photos - Thanks!

[Karoband]

You're welcome. My pleasure, Dan.

[David E. Brown]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your efforts in trying to bring out the best of these images. It is appreciated.

I have a few comments regarding several of the machines in your recent postings:

Photo Numbers 115-117
Red 3: Most probably another single seat A-1a operating with 10./NJG 11. It was found adjacent to the Hamburg-Lübeck autobahn at Reinfeld. Of the number of photos taken of it one shows the aircraft with very muddy front and right tires. This observation, plus its location make it quite likely that this is the Me 262 that Lt. Kurt Lamm deliberately steered off the autobahn (April 30?). This machine may have been the aircraft Lamm flew from Zerbst as WNr.110955 is known to have been flown from Kahla to Zerbst on 13 March 1945 by Günther Tippel.

Photo Numbers 129-134
White 12: Possibly WNr.111730 based on a poor quality photograph, and comparison of its camouflage and markings styles with other related JV 44 Me 262s (e.g. 111704, 111740, 111745, 110746). This Werknummer is listed on the 26 April 1945 München-Riem Me 262 document under the heading “J.V.44”. However, there are a significant number of transcription errors in this document and it is possible that the Werknummer is 111733 (the photo suggested this is the number).

Red 1: The markings indicate that aircraft was an ex-2./KG 51 aircraft, and its Werknummer 110730 is visible in one of the Innsbruck-Hötting photographs. But it was later with II./Ausbildungs-Kommando KG(J) 54. On 21 April 1945 was at Prag-Rusin and listed in a document of that date and identified by its Werknummer and marking ("Rote 1”).

“Red 1’s” Werknummer is not on the 26 April 1945 München-Riem Me 262 document as one of the 12 (9 confirmed / 3 questionable) Me 262s listed under the JV heading and identified with a hand-written notation as “I./KG 51” aircraft. These were transferred to JV 44 a few days previously but then transferred back to KG 51 and ordered returned to Prague. “Red 1” must have come from elsewhere or was already in Prague.

Best,

David

[Karoband]

Hi David,

Wow, thank you so much for these observations. The information about Kurt Lamm is new to me. Also, I have spent hours squinting at an enlarged cropping of the tail of White 12 trying to decipher the tips of the werknummer.

I have reservations about the werknummer of "Red 1".

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=956

best regards,

Jim

[Karoband]

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=957

135. No. 6 is Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 111751 (listed as being at München-Riem on 26 April 1945 handed over from "Memmigen Industrie"). In this photo it is being examined by American personnel in close proximity to White 12 beneath the hydro lines in the south-west corner of Hotting airfield. Note the landmark barn with the white-washed cinderblock base at the far right. Not visible are the damages sustained by these two aircraft although the tail of of 111751 appears to be on the ground. Ltn. Peter Stollwerck of NSG 9, already at Hotting on 29 April 1945, is quoted by Nick Beale, Ghost Bombers, (2001), p. 181, "We saw exciting days at Innsbruck: jet fighters landed in large numbers and made headstands, one after another". It is likely some of these were the ones dragged north to be parked along Kranebitter Allee.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=958

136. W.Nr. 111751 was probably the Me 262 parked furthest east along the Allee. It was on a diagonal facing south-east away from the Allee and this picture shows its collapsed nosewheel and damage to the port wing. Also, in the background top right, the unpainted W.Nr. 113371 can just be seen beyond a column of GIs or POWs.

[Karoband]

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=959

137. No. 7 is Me 262 A-1a/Jabo W.Nr. 113371 (listed as being at the DLH facility at München-Riem on 26 April 1945). In this photo of W.Nr. 500490, the white shape at the top is 113371 about 30 meters south of a dilapidated barn, facing west. About 30 meters behind it W.Nr. 112360? canjust be made out facing North-east towards the Allee.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=960

138. This photo shows the uncamouflaged W.Nr. 113371 on the north-west side of Hotting airfield near the dilapidated barn. It can be distinguished by its simple white hakenkreuz and simple white balkenkreuz. Its werknummer is readily seen on the rear fuselage below the horizontal stabilizer.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=961

139. In this photo of W.Nr. 113371 its bomb racks can be seen. Note the distance from the poplar trees , and also the flattened nose and engine cowls.

[Karoband]

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=967

140. No. 8 is Me 262 A-1a possibly W.Nr. 112360? (perhaps the closest match on the 26 April 1945 list at München-Riem is W.Nr. 113340 at the DLH facility). This photo was taken almost from the same angle as in #139 of 113371 at Hotting almost 30 meters south of it, facing north east. The damage to this aircraft was extensive and the starboard engine nacelle is seen detached from the wing. A torn-off engine fairing is also below the rear fuselage.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=968

141. The same damage can be seen in this picture.

Note: I have never seen any photographs of Nos. 9, 10 or 11.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=971

142. No. 12 is the unpainted Me 262 A-1a/Jabo W.Nr. 111712 (listed in error as 112712 being at the DLH facility at München-Riem on 26 April 1945). David Myhra has a series of E-books entitled Broken Me 262 A Jet Fighters, (2011). In parts 7 & 8, there are photos of W.Nr. 111712 in close proximity to W.Nr. 113357, W.Nr. 111751, White 12 and a third unpainted? Me 262 (No. 15) in a meadow in the south west corner of Hotting airfield. In this screen-shot, W.Nr. 111712 has been moved to about 50 meters south west of the barn with the white-washed cinderblock base, facing south-east.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=970

143. W.Nr. 111712 can be readily identified by the fact it is uncamouflaged and has both a simple black hakenkreuz and a simple black balkenkreuz.

[Karoband]

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=972

144. No. 13 is Me 262 A-1a White 4. Its identity is unknown to me. It was situated about 30 meters south of W.Nr. 111712, facing east-south-east. This is a screenshot from the video of Hotting airfield taken in the summer of of 1945. Note the late production tail light bulb on the rudder. Although David Myhra captions this aircraft as W.Nr. 170061, I have my doubts.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=973

145. Another screenshot of White 4 shows desiccated branches lying on the aircraft despite the camouflage net on the engine nacelle. This is an aircraft of JV 44 as proven by the standard position and style of the white "4". Placed forward of the balkenkreuz, its height is from the top of the balkenkreuz to the underside of its lower bar, and it is distanced one half the width of the balkenkreuz from it.

Unfortunately there are no photographs of No. 14.

[Karoband]

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=977

146. This screenshot was taken while the cameraman was standing just north of White 4, facing southeast. No. 20 can be seen facing northeast. No. 15 may be a third unpainted Me 262 at Hotting. Unfortunately I have not seen any close-up views of it. No. 16 faces northeast.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=975

147. No. 16 is Me 262 A-1a, possibly W.Nr. 500228, 9K+CN of 5./KG 51 (listed as being turned over to JV 44 from KG 51 at Landau). It is parked in front of an unseen small concrete apron in the southwest corner of Hotting airfield, facing northeast. Note the concrete base of the hydro pylon at the extreme left, as well as the nose and tail tip colours, an imperceptible red line indicating II.Gruppe contiguous with the red tip indicating 5. Staffel. To my eye, there is a red hand-painted "C" on the nose-wheel door.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=976

148. In this screenshot, what seems to me to be a large red "C" can be seen behind the balkenkreuz. It also has hand-painted dark camouflage added to the sides of the engine nacelles and lacks both bomb racks and white gun rectangles.