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Old 1st January 2013, 21:20
RT RT is offline
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Travel between Königsberg nd Helsinski

In july nd august were flown a big qty of flights between these 2 destination, which unit was in charge of them ???

Rémi
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Old 3rd January 2013, 21:12
Kari Lumppio Kari Lumppio is offline
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Re: Travel between Königsberg nd Helsinski

Salut!

What year? Mr. Salonen should be able to answer your question if I can't (my computer with data is still kaputt).

BTW "big qty" is how much per day/week?


Kari
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Old 4th January 2013, 13:00
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Re: Travel between Königsberg nd Helsinski

Year is , sorry, 1941, Kari, seems half to a dozen flights per week occured , maybe more occured, KGzbv106 on the list, but could be also some ad-hoc unit.

Rémi
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Old 5th January 2013, 15:03
Kari Lumppio Kari Lumppio is offline
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Re: Travel between Königsberg nd Helsinski

Salut Rémi!

The period June-July 1941 is difficult from archive document perspective. Finnish flight logs etc. do not really start recording aircraft codes until late 1942. For year 1941 there may not be Air Observation logs at all surviving. At least I have not seen one yet. There was some sort of reorganization in the Air Observation in Spring 1942 which may be the explanation for the situation.

About flying activity. I would expect half dozen or more transport flights per day if a Luftwaffe unit was transferring. At least that is what I remember from Summer 1944 situation (Commando Kuhlmey activity). Half of dozen per week is more like routine supply activity.

Hannu Valtonen mentions 2./K.Gr.z.b.V 108 planes based at Pori at the beginning of war (June 1941) and later also at Malmi in his book Luftwaffe Pictorial (In Finnish, page 165). I guess the transport flight activity was related to KGr 806 actions over Estonia and Gulf of Finland.


Hope this helps some,
Kari
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Old 6th January 2013, 09:48
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Re: Travel between Königsberg nd Helsinski

KGr.806, is probably high as a cause of that activity , the place choosed Königsberg probably because the less distand from Finnland as pointed by Matti.

Rémi
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Old 11th January 2013, 20:39
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Luftwaffe transfer flight accidents?

This relates to research I'm doing on Luftwaffe accident records and non-combat flying. Ernst Stilla, in his PhD thesis, wrote about very high accident rates "on transfer flights." Galland apparently tried to crack down on them.

I'll give the translated version (needs work!) and then the original German. The numbers refer to Stilla's footnotes.

Does anyone have data on specific transfers and accidents, or overall accident rates? Thanks much.
Roger Bohn


Quote:
The former led to a relatively low aviation discipline within the entire Air Force, which in turn resulted in regular complaints by the Air Force leadership.1374 In spring 1942, in a meeting with Göring, Jeschonnek referred to the still much too high number of accidents. In late summer 1942, the casualties during transfers flights made Galland decree that only unit leaders themselves may plan and carry out transfers.1375 In spring 1943, Milch complained about the declining aviation discipline and mentioned the loss rates during transfer flights, inon the order of 20% damaged andor destroyed engines in the period between August and September 1942. The Chief of the Air Force Ground Units also warned of the consequences of the prevailing lack of aviation discipline, namely a further increase in accident rates.1376 Shortly before his death, the General Chief of Staff similarly declared that casualties to be a worrisome phenomenon: "In spite of increased deliveries, only 300 pursuit planes were installed at the front over the past 6 weeks, sincebecause the losses without enemy interventionnon-combat losses reached a shocking level."1377 To better assess the accident rates, the overall American losses during transport flights from the US across the Atlantic Ocean to Great Britain or Italy in September 1944 provide a good comparison: Out of 1,124 aircrafts, merely six (.5%) were lost.1378

Quote:
Ersteres hatte zur Folge, dass sich die Flugdisziplin innerhalb der Luftwaffe insgesamt auf einem recht niedrigen Niveau bewegte, was schließlich zu regelmäßigen Klagen der Luftwaffenführung führte.1374 Im Frühjahr 1942 verwies Jeschonnek während einer Besprechung mit Göring auf die noch immer viel zu hohe Zahl unnötiger Unfälle. Im Spätsommer 1942 hatten die Unfallverluste bei Verlegungen bereits eine solche Höhe erreicht, dass Galland erlassen musste, dass diese nur noch von den Verbandsführern selbst geplant und angeführt werden dürften.1375 Im Frühjahr 1943 beschwerte sich Milch bezüglich der nachlassenden Flugdisziplin und verwies auf Verlustraten bei Überführungsflügen in Höhe von 20% an beschädigten und zerstörten Maschinen während des Zeitraumes August und September 1942. Auch der Chef der Luftwaffenbodenorganisation warnte vor den Folgen der Überhand nehmenden mangelnden Flugdisziplin, nämlich einer weiteren Erhöhung der Unfallraten.1376 Kurz vor seinem Tod erklärte auch der Generalstabschef die Unfall- verluste zu einem besorgniserregenden Phänomen: „Trotz der erhöhten Auslieferungen wurden in den letzten 6 Wochen nur 300 Jagdflugzeuge an der Front zusätzlich eingesetzt, da die Verluste ohne Feindeinwirkung ein unerhört hohes Ausmaß erreicht haben.“1377 Zur besseren Einschätzung der Unfallraten lassen sich hier gut die gesamten amerikanischen Verluste bei Überführungsflügen aus den Vereinigten Staaten über den Atlantik nach Großbritannien oder Italien im September 1944 anführen. Von 1.124 Flugzeugen gingen gerade einmal sechs Maschinen verloren (0,5%).1378
Source: Die Luftwaffe im Kampf um die Luftherrschaft.
Entscheidende Einflussgrößen bei der Niederlage der Luftwaffe im Abwehrkampf im Westen und über Deutschland im Zweiten Weltkrieg unter besonderer Berücksichtigung der Faktoren „Luftrüstung“, „Forschung und Entwicklung“ und „Human Ressourcen“.
Inaugural-Dissertation
zur
Erlangung der Doktorwürde
der
Philosophischen Fakultät
der Rheinischen Friedrich-Wilhelms-Universität zu Bonn
vorgelegt von Ernst Stilla aus Bukarest

Translation by Carola Betzold; edits by me.
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