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Old 27th January 2008, 16:49
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VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

From Oleg Rastrenin's book:

During attacks on Luftwaffe airfields on 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943 VVS lost (KiA, MiA, WiA, DfW, KiFA):

103 Il-2 - 86 pilots and 70 gunners;
28 A-20 and Pe-2 - 24 pilots, 22 bombardiers, and 28 gunners;
72 fighters - 68 pilots.

Short description of 10 june 1943 air raid:

10 june, 2 attacks:

1 raid to attack airfields Kharkov and Mikoyanovka (~4:15)

1 raid to attack airfields Sescha(20:20-20:40)

I will briefly describe raid to Sescha.
1st wave of:

12 x Il-2 (leader Kap. V.Rubtzov, 312 shap) with close escort of 6 x Yak-1 (leader Maj. N.Tzagojko, 122 iap)
11 x Il-2 (leader Kap. K.Brekhov, 62 shap) with close escort of 8 x Yak-7B (leader Kap. Sibirtzev, 172 iap)
Both groups with fighter sweep of:
4 x Yak-1 (St.Lt. R.Seroglazov, 162 iap)
4 x La-5 (Kap. N.Spiridenko, 49 iap)
7 x Yak-1 (St.Lt. Kisilev, 172 iap)

2nd wave consist of:
9 x Pe-2 (2 bap) with close escort of 6 x La-5 (Maj. Alifanov, 263 iap)
9 x Pe-2 (38 bap) with close escort of 6 x La-5 (Kap. Rakitin, 263 iap)
9 x Pe-2 (Maj.Ageyev, 6 bap) with close escort of 6 x La-5 (Maj. Kashirkin, 522 iap)
9 x Pe-2 (St.Lt. Kuznetzov, 130 bap) with close escort of 6 x La-5 (Maj. Gribok, 522 iap)

Fighter sweep:
15 x La-5 (2 giap).
--------------------------
Road to target:

no enemy fighters, weak AAA fire. No claims and losses.

--------------------------
Over the target:

Result of attack on Sescha airfield:
312 shap claimed: 15 2 x Flak destroyed, 15 large explosions;
62 shap: destroyed ~10 and damaged ~5-7 enemy aircrafts, 1 house destroyed, 5 explosions;
Pe-2's of 204 bad: many explosions on the airfield, all airfield covered with heavy smoke.

Over tha target Il-2 wave was intercepted by large group of Fw190's.

Losses:
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. A.Kuznetzov, 312 shap) shot down by AAA, crashed in airfield area;
Il-2 (St.Lt. Alferov, 312 shap) damaged by AAA, reached his base airfield and emlanded;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Mochalov, 312 shap)damaged by AAA, reached his base airfield and emlanded;

---------------------
Road from target to home bases:

Groups of fighters had splittered and got hard combat with large groups of enemy fighters. Both Il-2 and Pe-2 waves came under attack of Fw190 groups.

Losses:
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Ivliyev, 312 shap) heavy damaged by Fw190, reached his base airfield and emlanded;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Komarovsky, 312 shap) heavy damaged by Fw190, reached his base airfield and emlanded;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Anufriyev, 62 shap) heavy damaged by Fw190, reached his base airfield and emlanded;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Popov, 62 shap) heavy damaged by Fw190, reached his base airfield and emlanded;
Pe-2 (Maj. I.Ageyev, 6 bap), shot down by enemy fighers in area of Sescha;
Pe-2 (Ml.Lt. Volkov, 6 bap), shot down by enemy fighers in area of Sescha;
Pe-2 (Ml.Lt. Shpagin, 6 bap), shot down by enemy fighers in area of Sescha;
Pe-2 (Ml.Lt. Stepchak, 6 bap), shot down by enemy fighers in area of Sescha;
Pe-2 (Ml.Lt. Yemeljanov, 6 bap), shot down by enemy fighers in area of Sescha;
Pe-2 (Ml.Lt. Shibanov, 6 bap), shot down by enemy fighers in area of Sescha;
Pe-2 (Ml.Lt. Ignatjev, 6 bap), shot down by enemy fighers in area of Sescha;
Pe-2 (Ml.Lt. Nikitin, 6 bap), shot down by enemy fighers in area of Sescha;
Pe-2 (Ml.Lt. Smol'sky, 6 bap), shot down by enemy fighers in area of Sescha;
La-5 (Lt. Oparin, 522 iap) shot down by enemy fighters during escort of Pe-2 of 6 bap, Sescha area;
La-5 (Ml.Lt. Ishimsky, 522 iap) shot down by enemy fighters during escort of Pe-2 of 6 bap, Sescha area;
Yak-1 (Maj.Tzagojko, 122 iap) damaged by Fw190, bellylanded behind enemy lines;
Yak-1 (Ml.Lt. Nepokrytov, 122 iap) shot down by Fw190,did not returned from combat mission;
Yak-1 (St. Shelukha, 162 iap) shot down by Fw190, did not returned from combat mission;
La-5 (St.Lt. Pankin, 2 giap) did not returned from combat mission by unknown reason;

Claims:

Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Kap.Rakitin, 263 iap), crashed in area of Krasny Oktyabr';
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Ml.Lt. Orlov, 263 iap), crashed in area of Krasny Oktyabr';
Fw190 (shared) shot down by pair of La-5 (Maj.Alifanov, Ltn. Sapegin, 263 iap), crashed in Sescha area;
Fw190 (shared) shot down by pair of La-5 (Kap.Popov, Ml.Lt. Chernushevich, 263 iap), crashed in area of Zhebovo.
---------------

If interested in full information, let me know - use PM. I have full claims losses of that operations.

Best wishes!
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Old 27th January 2008, 20:25
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

And another (of 2) raid on 10 june 1943.

1 raid to attack airfields Kharkov and Mikoyanovka (~4:15)

12 x Il-2 (leader Yankin, 66 shap) with close escort of 12 x La-5 (leader Kap. Matviyenko, 297 iap)
12 x Il-2 (leader Kozlenko, 673 shap), 12 x Il-2 (leader Stepanov, 800 shap), 12 x Il-2 (leader Chernetzov, 820 shap) with escort of totally 36 fighters from 4 iak.

Fighter sweep: 29 La-5, task to block Rogan' airfield.
--------------------------
Road to target:

no enemy fighters, weak AAA fire. No claims and losses.
--------------------------

Over the target:
Kharkov airfield - 66 shap+673 shap: destr. ~35 aircrafts, 4 x Flak, 1 hangar, 1 building, 17 explosions.

Makoyanovka airfield - 800 shap + 820 shap: 3 x Flak, 5 x Bf109, 9 cars, 2 ammodepots.
5 x Il-2 (800 shap & 820 shap) were damaged by AAA fire, returned to base.

---------------------
Road from target to home bases:

Groups was intercepted by large group of Bf109's.

Losses:
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Odarchenko, 820 shap) shot down by Bf109, crashed at area Bol'shiye Baiki;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Levchenko, 66 shap) shot down by Bf109, MiA;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Kindarjan, 66 shap) shot down by Bf109, crashed at area Bely Kolodetz;

Claims:
Bf109 shot down by La-5 (Kap. Korol'kov, 297 iap), crashed near village Ziborivka.
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Last edited by Evgeny Velichko; 28th January 2008 at 18:40.
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Old 28th January 2008, 16:12
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

8 june 1943.

2 air raids of 15 VA and 1 VA.
15 VA: to Orel-Central, Mezenka, Kuliki, Lezhenka (Prokurovka) at 20:00 - 20:05;
1 VA : Sescha 20:20 - 20:25.

I'll describe 15 VA raid, the most bloodly.

6 x Il-2 (leader Kap. Smirnov, 614 shap), 6 x Il-2 (leader Kap. Kovgan, 614 shap) with close escort of 9 x La-5 of 50 iap;

Fighter sweep:

6 x Yak-1 (leader St.Lt. Golovin, 65 giap) to block and strafe attack airfield Mezenka;
8 x La-5 (Podp. Ivanov, 63 giap) to block airfield Kuliki;
8 x Yak-7B (leader St.Lt. Manoshin, 64 giap) to block airfield Lezhenka (Prokurovka);

--------------------------
Road to target:

Group of 63 giap was intercepted by 10-12 Fw190 + Bf109 in area of Kuliki airfield.
Claims:
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Serj. Sudoshkin, 63 giap), crashed in area of Kuliki airfield;
Losses:
La-5 (Ml.Lt. Kudryanov, 63 giap) shot down by enemy fighters, did not return from combat mission;
La-5 (Ml.Lt. Valentey, 63 giap) shot down by enemy fighters, did not return from combat mission;

Group of 65 giap was intercepted by group of 4 Fw190 and 2 Bf109 in area of Orel-GVF.
Claims:
Fw190 shot down by Yak-1 (Kap. Kubarev, 65 giap), crashed in 10 km West from airfield Orel-GVF;
Fw190 shot down by Yak-1 (Ml.Lt. Popov, 65 giap), crashed near of Yuzhnaya Sloboda, area of Orel;
Losses:
Yak-1 (Ml.Lt. Lapshenkov, 65 giap) shot down by enemy fighters, did not return from combat mission to Orel area;
Yak-1 (Lt. Zhukov, 65 giap) shot down by enemy fighters, did not return from combat mission to Orel area;

Group of 64 giap was intercepted by group of 4 Fw190 and 4 Bf109 in area of Lezhenki.
Claims:
Fw190 shot down by Yak-7B (Ml.Lt. Alekseyev, 64 giap), crashed in area of Selivanovo;
Bf109 shot down by Yak-7B (St.Lt. Manoshin, 64 giap), crashed in area of airfield Lezhenki;
Losses:
Yak-7B (Ml.Lt. Matzina, 64 giap) shot down by enemy fighters, did not return from combat mission to Lezhenki airfield;
Yak-7B (Lt. Zaikin, 64 giap) shot down by enemy fighters, did not return from combat mission to Lezhenki airfield;
Yak-7B (Ml.Lt. Drozd, 64 giap) shot down by enemy fighters, did not return from combat mission to Lezhenki airfield;

--------------------------
Over the target:

Lezhenka airfield (65 giap): 5 aircrafts destroyed on earth.
Claims:
Fw190 shot down by Yak-1 (St.Lt. Koventzov, 65 giap), crashed in South-East from Mtzensk;

Orel-GVF: result of strike is not recognised, in case of full group of 12 Il-2 did not returned from combat mission. Escort fighters saw 7 - 10 explosions on airfield after Il-2 strike.

---------------------
Road from target to home bases:
Because of heaviest AAA fire escort of 50 iap climbed up and lost group of Il-2, then were intercepted by group of Fw190.
Claims:
Fw190 shot down by La-5 of 50 iap, crashed in Orel area;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 of 50 iap, crashed in Orel area;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 of 50 iap, crashed in Orel area;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 of 50 iap, crashed in Orel area;
Losses:
La-5 (Ml.Lt. Korotkikh, 50 iap) shot down by Fw190, crashed in area Orel-Mtzensk;
La-5 (Ml.Lt. Mikhailov, 50 iap) shot down by Fw190, crashed in area Orel-Mtzensk;
La-5 (Serj. Zhuravlev, 50 iap) shot down by Fw190, crashed in area Orel-Mtzensk;
La-5 (Ml.Lt. Zhuchkov, 50 iap) heavy damaged by Fw190, crashed on landing on his airfield;

In that moment group of Il-2 came under attack of large group of Fw190.
Losses:
Il-2 (Kap. A.Smirnov, 614 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Orel-Mtzensk area;
Il-2 (Kap. P.Astapenko, 614 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Orel-Mtzensk area;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. P.Varapayev, 614 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Orel-Mtzensk area;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. A.Gamynin, 614 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Orel-Mtzensk area;
Il-2 (Kap. A.Kovgan, 614 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Orel-Mtzensk area;
Il-2 (Lt. I.Kosmachev, 614 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Orel-Mtzensk area;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. V.Kramar, 614 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Orel-Mtzensk area;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. N.Chebotaryov, 614 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Orel-Mtzensk area;
Il-2 (St.Serj. E.Saburov, 614 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Orel-Mtzensk area;
Il-2 (Serj. G.Sorokin, 614 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Orel-Mtzensk area;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. G.Maltzev, 614 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Orel-Mtzensk area;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. A.Rezinkin, 614 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Orel-Mtzensk area;
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Old 28th January 2008, 18:29
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Evgeny,
Did you mean the date for post#2 to be 10Jun43 instead of 10Jul43? Also is all this info from Oleg Rastrenin's book "Split Sky. May-June of 1943" (Translated version of title)? Great stuff!
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Old 28th January 2008, 18:40
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Yes, Nokose. Little typo

All this info is a BRIEF info from that book. Book contains more and more very interesting stuff.

I post this info here to let all who interested to confirm/unconfirm VVS and Luftwaffe claims and losses.
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Old 28th January 2008, 19:23
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Claimanalysis:

Concerning 8.6.1943 raid to Secha:
JG51-claims
12-24IL-2 claimed vs. 12 admitted
18-31 fighter vs. 11 admitted
min numbers for timeframe, max numbers include claims w/o daytime

Concerning 10.6.1943 raid to Secha:
Claims by JG51:
8-12 Pe-2 claimed vs. 9 admitted by VVS
31-34 IL-2 claimed vs. 7 admitted by VVS (from them 3 flak)
8-13 fighter claimed vs. 6 admitted by VS
Minimum numbers for claim-times between 19:13 and 19:49, max numbers incl. claims w/o daytime
Additionally 2 IL-2 claims by Hauptmann Hermann, 3./ZG1

Concerning 10.6.1943 raid to Charkov:
Claims by II./JG3:
3 IL-2 claimed vs. 3 admitted by VVS
3 LaGG5 claimed vs. nul admitted by VVS
in area 61 6xx

PS: Might be corrected later on...
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Old 28th January 2008, 20:15
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogybär View Post
Additionally 2 IL-2 claims by Hauptmann Hermann, 3./ZG1
It is noted in book:

" 3 Il-2 came under attack of enemy fighter UNKNOWN type".

It could be because VVS fighter pilots sayd directly Fw190 or Bf109. When they may saw Bf110, they may note it in combat report as "enemy fighter". Later, in high Staff, "enemy fighter" could be changed to "enemy fighter, type unknown".
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Old 28th January 2008, 22:20
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Hptm Hermann 3/ZG1 shows on Tony Woods list Il-2 m.b. [Il-4] 19:25 and Il-4 19:33. Oblt Hermann Luecke 9/JG51 claims four Il-4 from 19:16-19:25. Il-4 is a two motor bomber. Does anyone have losses for JG51 for the claims made by the VVS?
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Old 28th January 2008, 22:57
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

And to finish a picture of bloodly 8 june 1943:

8 june 1943.

2 air raids of 15 VA and 1 VA.

1 VA : Sescha 20:20 - 20:25.
1st wave:
6 x Il-2 (leader Maj. M.Bondarenko, 198 shap) with close escort of 6 x Yak-1 (leader Kap. Gugnin, 122 iap);
6 x Il-2 (leader Kap. V.Malinkin, 198 shap), 5 x La-5 (49 iap);
1 x Il-2 (leader Kap. Gubanov, 62 shap) with escort of 5 x Yak-7 (172 iap. Kap.Sibirtzev), 6 x Yak-1 (162 iap) and 5 x Yak-1 (172 iap);
2nd wave:
9 x Pe-2 (2 bap), 9 x Pe-2 (261 bap), 8 x Pe-2 (bap) with escort of 42 x La-5 (2 giap, 263 iap, 522 iap)

--------------------------
Road to target:

In the area of Dolgoye group was intercepted by 6 x Fw190.

Claims:
Fw190 was shot down by Yak-1 (Kap. N.Gugnin, 122 iap), crashed in area of Dolgoye;

--------------------------
Over the target:
Groups of Il-2 were intercepted by large groups of Bf109 and Fw190's.

Losses:
La-5 (Ml.Lt. Stadnichuk, 522 iap) was shot down by AAA, crashed at Bryn' area.

Sescha airfield:
198 shap: ~ 20 aircrafts destroyed, damaged ~ 15, 3 large explosions (thought fuel and ammo depots);
2 bap, 261 bap: destroye d5 aircrafts, several buildings, 3 explosions.

---------------------
Road from target to home bases:

After attack both groups came under attack of another group of Fw190 (1st two groups of Fw190's fought against escort fighters to manage them out of Il-2's and Pe-2's). Attacks followed from Sescha to frontline and even further.

Claims:
Fw190 shot down by Il-2 gunner (crew of leader of all formation Maj. M.Bondarenko, 198 shap), crashed in area Zagorje, E from Rekovichi;
Fw190 shot down by Il-2 (Kap. Mailinkin, 198 shap), crashed in swamp near Sescha;
Fw190 shot down by Yak-1 (Kap. Gugnin, 122 iap), crashed near Sescha airfield;
Fw190 shot down by Yak-1 (Ml.Lt. Bushkov, 122 iap), crashed near Sescha airfield;
Fw190 shot down by Yak-7 (Kap. Sibirtzev, 172 iap), crashed near Sescha airfield;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Maj. Alifanov, 263 iap), crashed 8 kms NW Sescha airfield;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Ml.Lt. Sapegin, 263 iap), crashed 12 kms NW Sescha airfield;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Kap. Popov, 263 iap), crashed 25 kms NE Sescha airfield;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Lt. Kosolapov, 2 giap), crashed 6 kms SE Sel'tzo;
Fw190 shot down by Pe-2 gunners, (crew of Lt. Vorobjov, 261 bap), crashed near Sescha airfield;

Losses:
Pe-2 (Ml.Lt. Zakharchenko, 2 bap), damaged by enemy fighers, crashed on landing;
Pe-2 (Kap. Fedchenko, 2 bap), damaged by enemy fighers, crashed on landing;
Pe-2 (Maj. Petrov, 261 bap), damaged by enemy fighers, crashed on landing;
Pe-2 (Serj. Struchkov, 261 bap), shot down by enemy fighers, failed to return from combat mission in area on Sescha;
Pe-2 (Serj. Yerotzky, 261 bap), shot down by enemy fighers, failed to return from combat mission in area on Sescha;
Il-2 (Maj. M.Bondarenko, 198 shap) damaged by enemy fighters at Sescha-Ludinovka, could reach territory and emlanded;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Petrov, 198 shap) damaged by Fw190, could reach his airfield emlanded;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Zinovsky, 198 shap) damaged by Fw190, could reach territory and emlanded at airfield Zhelezniki;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Zakharov, 198 shap) damaged by Fw190, could reach territory and emlanded at airfield Ostrova;
Il-2 (Lt. Drozdov, 198 shap) damaged by Fw190, could reach territory and emlanded 15km SW Medyn';
La-5 (Starsh. Smolyanov, 49 iap) damaged by enemy fighters, emlanded at airfield Ostrova;
Yak-1 (St.Lt. Sychev, 162 iap) damaged by enemy fighters, emlanded at airfield Dvoyevka;
Yak-1 (St.Lt. Vinokurov, 122 iap) failed to return on combat mission.
Yak-1 (St.Lt. Minarsky, 162 iap) failed to return on combat mission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokose View Post
Hptm Hermann 3/ZG1 shows on Tony Woods list Il-2 m.b. [Il-4] 19:25 and Il-4 19:33. ...
... Il-4 is a two motor bomber.
"Il-4" missidentification of I./ZG 1 was discussed already.

BTW: fates of Hptm. W.Hermann and Kap. V.Malinkin (leader of 2nd group of 198 shap in that day) will cross a bit later, on 13 july 1943. In crazy furball of 4 Il-2, leaded by squadron leader of 1st squadron of 198 shap Kap. Malinkin and 12 Bf110G-2 from Stab./ZG 1, Stab I./ZG 1 and 1./ZG 1 Kap. Malinkin was shot down and killed by Wilfried Hermann. Wingman of Malinkin, further Il-2 expert and twice Hero of Soviet Union Lt. Efimov shot down Comodore ZG 1 J.Blechschmitt. Malinkin had at that time 5 enemy fighters at his score. In Tony Woods lists claim of Hermann on 13 july listed as "Il-4". It is just mean "Il-2 new (with gunner) modification", because to midsummer 1943 not all of Il-2's had gunners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokose View Post
Does anyone have losses for JG51 for the claims made by the VVS?
Good question
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Last edited by Evgeny Velichko; 28th January 2008 at 23:43.
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Old 29th January 2008, 11:45
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokose View Post
Hptm Hermann 3/ZG1 shows on Tony Woods list Il-2 m.b. [Il-4] 19:25 and Il-4 19:33. Oblt Hermann Luecke 9/JG51 claims four Il-4 from 19:16-19:25. Il-4 is a two motor bomber. Does anyone have losses for JG51 for the claims made by the VVS?
Nokose, there are ca. 300 IL-4, -5 and -7 in that list, all in 1943. I personally interprete these as IL-2m.H. (with reargunner).
Reasons:
1) There were names like this given by Luftwaffe for IL2-2seater
2) Nearly all of these claims are at altitudes <1.000m. And I am sure Soviets would NOT use IL-4 so low.
3) IL-4 was mostly used in NBAPs (Night Bombers)
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