Compiègne may 1940

[pilot2]

Hello

Compiègne was heavily bombed on 17th et 19th may. I'm looking for all informations about unit and planes involved in those actions.

Sincerly

[Nick Beale]

This would be a good place to start, the daily Luftwaffe situation reports (in German):

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/...de/grid/zoom/1

[pilot2]

Hello

thank you, it's a good starting document but I didn't found a precise answer.

Sincerly

[Pieter H]

Hi,
I have the following:
17/5 11.00 Attack railway Compiegne-Creil, stations Compiegne, Fleury I/KG2
19/5 10.30 Attack roads Compiegne-Canly II/KG3
19/5 17.20 Attack train stations and lines Clermont-Compiegne, Montdidier a/f I/KG53


Cheers, Pieter

[robert]

Hi,

Fliegerkorps II reported as follows at 23.30 hrs on 17.5.40:

In the late afternoon till 20.00 hrs: successful attacks on columns and railway transports in the area of Compiegne-Reims-Creil-Crouy-Sabotterie-Fismes-Soissons.

On 19.5.40 at 12.15 hrs:

Attacks on road and railway traffic:
Direct hit of 250-kg bomb on railway bridge near Verberis, 12 km S of Compiegne. Bridge split apart

In the afternoon:

19.5.40 21.00 hrs: railway tracks just NE of Belerncourt (8 km E of Noyon) were hit. Road was hit. Bombs were dropped on column in forest approx. 6 km S of Compiegne. A truck column was hit by 8 bombs on road close to Lassigny (8 km W of Noyon). Heavy flak was met near Compiegne and Noyon.

19.5.40 21.10 hrs: 3 hits on railway station near Compiegne, 2 hits NE of railway station in Compiegne, numerous hits on road Senlies-Pont St. Maxense and Senlis-Crepy en Valoise. Flak was met near Compiegne, heavy flak near Pierre Fonds.

Robert

[pilot2]

Hello

Thanks Robert and Pieter. I saw those entries in the daily Luftwaffe situation reports but... they are all about Compiègne area.
On 17th and 19th may the main street and the complete ancient downtown were destroyed. There was no military objective there.
Either they were unable to hit the railway station (not very far but on the opposite bank of Oise river) or it was a deliberate action.

Sincerly

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Hello Pilot2,

Robert pointed out that: "Heavy Flak was met near Compiègne and Noyon"...
How heavy was that? Did it ranged close and influenced the marking of targets?
Did the wind changed and off-set the "desired" target?
Were they bombing visually "onto the Bomber Leader", like the Americans later did? or...individually, each Bomb Aimer aiming independently?

Surely WIND (an increase) and the already mentioned "Heavy Flak" may have influenced the desired effect of bombing (on the ground)...

In the point of view (presumed) of an aircrew...I would have liked to "drop my eggs" and "get the hell out of there" very quickly...(IF I WERE THERE)....

With a "running front and tactical situation changing every minute" it may have been difficult for the average front line airman to know if their objective was indeed a "military objective" down there...some 10,000-20,000 feet below...They were just given a target (and job to do) to bomb...

Unless weather and eyes permitted a visual contact with the "military objective" (a bridge for instance or airfield or column of tanks, etc.)...guess one just bombed the "concentration"...but this is just a guess...I do have no positive knowledge about the visual bombing visors used by the Luftwaffe at that time...(no idea of what they could look from 10-20,000 feet down below) from the cockpit...

Most humbly yours..
A.

[pilot2]

Hello Adriano

No Flak unit at Compiègne or very close in our listing. All witnesses said the same thing : surprise complete. There was some wind.

Sincerly

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Hello Pilot2,

I wasn't aware, on your first message of the deppeness you had gone through the files or relevant information. Forgive me. Of course, you know the "game" and are aware of other DATA relevant to the point in question; like witnesses, etc.

My humble suggestion (seems rather difficult but not impossible) would try to find Collectors who may have Flugbuchs of LUFTWAFFE airmen that have flown onto that particular mission. It would be nice to see what they recorded onto them.

Sadly for us, there are (as far as I know) NO Kampfgeschwader (or other Geschwader) Order of Battle (ORB) digitalized onto the Bundesarchiv...so, from that "once" available source...we can not obtain Weather report, losses, etc...like we do find onto F540 and F541 (RAF Digitalized ORB's).

Most of us would have liked (and may have dreamed about reading them) to have had access to those "Luftwaffe War Diaries"...I have seen a kind of War Diary of JG 52 onto the net (site given here by one of the Toch Forum Members) and found it fascinating...it gives me a different approach to the War on the East. (I do say for myself, whose knowledge is very scarce on that area).

I am also not familiar or do have no access to the LOFTE Bombsights technical DATA...so, cannot add onto that field.

So, for the "equation" here it would be nice to find:
a) Weather / wind (speed/direction)
b) Route of approach of bombing force (true heading);
c) Technical DATA about the Lofte bombsights used;
d) "Official" Target for that particular mission.
e) Other DATA relevant to the point (military forces onto Compiègne, situational map, etc.)

This is why Military and Aeronautical History are incredible...we can go as deep as imagination and Sources (Official or not) "sail us"...literally.

Sadly, I can not be of assistance PILOT2...maybe someone else with more knowledge and DATA than my humble suggestions.

Wish you all the best and the success you deserve in obtaining your answers. Am sure they do exist, materially somewhere...

A.

[robert]

Hi,

19.5.40 21.10 hrs: 2 hits NE of railway station in Compiegne
so they tried to bomb it and missed. Sometimes the Germans did not report everything. Unfortunately we have only small report and we don`t have an after-action or mission report.

Regards

Robert