218 Squadron - HA-R - FRANCE - 1940

[Iain Torrance]

Like Martin Gleeson suggested on another thread I have also had concern over the ‘HA-R’ photo in T&N p272. Ex Shack suggested QUOTE “a possibility arising out of the relatively poor photos? K9273 is a clear profile view and unambiguous. The other photo is not so clear and shows the a/c tangled in trees. The lower part of the HA is lost by the curve of the fuselage and shadow. Could the other be a B, with the lower part similarly lost. The style of the lettering ,which seems to "square off" the curved parts of both letters could make the upper section of R and B appear very alike and with the truncation make part of the lower B look similar to the R . The lower R is far less angled on the a/c than we are typing it here and would write it by hand and have tried to figure it out before. “

Perhaps Peter could take a second close look at the original to see if he agrees there is a possibility of it not being HA-R?

Approaching the problem logically (with the clear reservation that the primary sources can not be fully trusted).

Firstly to look at all the possibilities if it is HA-R. The ‘other’ HA-R (K9273) arrived at 218 Squ on 11 Oct 1938 and was abandoned at Auberive. So this doesn’t look like phoney war HA-R loss. So the simple alternative would be a loss in 218 operations from Rheges of one of the planes that were transferred in and was could have been given new HA-R codes, but no bale-outs or casualties for 218 Squadron are recorded or known for that period. Another possibility I considered is that it was one of the planes taken over by another squadron but operated under unchanged 218 Squ codes and then lost. By my reckoning L5514 to 103 Squ is the only possibility from the records but that was reported as ‘seen to go down in a field in the target area’ with the pilot a POW, on 26 May.

Now assume it is not HA-R but say HA-B…but there is only one known 218 Squ loss ‘not accounted for’ …it is very, very, speculative but that is P2360 the Buttery plane, 14 May, lost without trace, no known crash site, no known graves…!!!

Either way a mystery.

Anybody got other photos, info or thoughts on this?

[Revi16]

HA-R

[Revi16]

??-R in the trees dated May 11, 1940

[Ex Shack]

Revi's photos are excellent but I note that in the 2nd set it is not possible to see the Sqn letters and although there are trees the scene is more open than the photo in Peter's book. Where the full Sqn/A/c letters are visible in the 1st set it does show a more pronounced slope to the lower part of the R than I gave credit for and this would reinforce the idea that it might be B on the photo in Peter's book. If Revi has not seen the pictures in the book(p272), the a/c that everyone is wondering about is in fact the rear section of a Battle fuselage in a thick group of trees and in a very nearly vertical position, and the letters are upside down as far as the camera position is concerned. The effect is to lose the lower part of the letters as they curve away from the camera and are in some shadow.
Regards
Dick

[Pieter H]

The 2nd series of pictures of Revi16 are the K9183 MQ-R off 226 Sqn that came down on May 10 at Bettendorf (Luxembourg).

Pieter

[Iain Torrance]

I have a note of a photo at IWM in the C Series, No 1115, confirming MQ-R as serial no K9183

[Stephen Smith]

Gents,

Two photo's of HA-R that maybe of interest. Taken via the association archives.

Regards

Steve

[Iain Torrance]

Three points:
1. If the photo is Sedan then the HA-(B/R) is most certainly a loss in operations from Auberive
2. There is a photograph of HA-R, K9273, in Valiant Wings, 1994 edition, page 197 ‘bombed on ground Auberive’
3. So looks highly Battle in wood is HA-B, so if that is case then assuming no two planes would be at the squadron with same codes at the same time the plane in the wood would have to have arrived at squadron after a previous HA-B left…. HA-B, K9324 recorded to 10MU, 7 March.

Therefore if the plane in the wood is HA-B it is likely to be a Battle arrived at Squadron after 7 March then lost in operations from Auberive.

Havn’t got the time right now to go through the elimination work but it should be possible to come up with very few possibilities from that starting point combined with known info on losses, codes (HA-J, HA-D, HA-W etc)….maybe, hopefully, even leaving just one….

best regards

Iain