Heinz Marquardt and Kurt Tanzer

[knusel]

Good evening,

Aders/Held say that Tanzer scored 111 JG51 kills, which leaves 17 or 32 of the alledged high total scored with Jagdfliegerführer 6 and Jagdfliegerführer Ostpreussen. It would be useful to know if they were scored in a Bf109 or an Fw190.

Does Mr Barbas mention the date of Marquardt's 98th kill ?

Best greetings from Switzerland, sincerely,

Michael

[Johannes]

Hi Michael

Your not listening. Tanzer had less than fifty confirmed claims. I have 9000 of JG51's claims, only thirty-five belong to Tanzer. He was latterly wingman to Karl-Gottfried Nordmann. Nordmann made no claims from 1943 onwards, his last claim(nr.75) was on 16th December 1942. The JG51 book which you are referencing from is pre-mikrofilm, thus outdated.

With Marquardt the first eighty-nine of his claims are found on the mikrofilms until 25th October 1944. Then the only references are from two flugbücher(E.Brunotte/E Arensmeyer) Arensmeyer states he was witnees to Marquardt's 121st on 25th April 1945, yet Brunotte states he was witness to a claim on 29th April 1945. Herr Barbas does not know the date of the 98th. But it would be on or just prior to 14th April 1945.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[knusel]

Good morning Johannes,

I do but I want to explore the myth. Maybe one day we find positive evidence for the fake or typo but maybe we find a surprise. I'll keep my eyes open.

Cheers,

Michael

[Johannes]

Trouble is Michael is that Tanzer was killed long before there was any real interest in our topic. Woidich "110" yet his own abschßßelist matches the mikrofilms exactly("82"), and he lived on until quite resent times. Guess he just showed no interest in our little hobby. Many of these pilots did not have a happy time, and thus just tried to forget the war The source of the "Woidich myth" was Hans Ring.
But it can come from many sources, from the pilots themselves even, then there is the points system in the West, a whole myriad of different ways the numbers false in number have become fact for us all.

John Foreman stated "Our books work only if you disbelieve everything that came before, then it makes perfect sense", but basically try to believe nothing without evidence !

The trouble with Tanzer is his Ritterkreuz, it would imply a more substantial "total", basically he got his Ritterkeuz for services as a wingman. Erwin Laskowski is the same, Ernst Obermaier states forty-six total, of which twenty-one in the West, and fourteen "viermots", yet his true total is fifteen, of which five were in the West(all "viermots". Now with Lastowski I have his actual flugbücher, which match the mikrofilms exactly, he clearly makes down confirmed or otherwise, yet the Ritterkreuz for just fifteen confirmed claims ! But forty-six is very specific, the myth came from somewhere, most unlikely from himself !

Kind Regards

Johannes

[knusel]

I believe that for example Herbert Rollwage's 44 viermot kills stem from somebody misreading the "1" in his 14 viermot kills as "4" which happens easily in handwritings.

Have a nice evening,

Michael

[Johannes]

Hi Michael

A good example. Let's just say that Rollwage did show a post-war interest in our subject/hobby, it's hard to say how he would rectify the typo that became myth.

Keep Well

Johannes

[knusel]

Good evening Johannes,

yes, and Person X who misread the 14 for the 44 might have simply added the 30 that make the difference to the 72 known claims (66 confirmed and 6 unconfirmed according to your research). Thereby he might have created the myth about a Rollwage total score of 102.

Cheers,

Michael

[Ferreira]

John Weal, in the book Jagdgeschwader 51 'Mölders', gives the number of 68 victories as Tanzer's final score.

[knusel]

Good morning Ferreira,

thanks for the useful hint.
Weal even categorizes him as KiA, maybe because he died in military service, although in peacetime.

Have a good Thursday,

Michael

[Ferreira]

Bernd Barbas suggests somewhere between 35 to 143 victories for Tanzer.

Lt. Kurt Tanzer, * 1.11.20 in Moskau, EKM ? , DKG 2.8.43, RK 5.12.43, ab 12.3.45 Staffelkapitän, 35 - 143 Abschüsse, 723 Feindflüge, + 25.6.1960.