Top Fw 190 aces

[Johannes]

Hi Michael

The KBT papers recorded the claim number for high scoring pilots, and listed Lambert's last(Mustang) as his 103rd.

With regards to Rudorffer I have his flugbücher and can give you a definitive answer.

Nr. 1-39 and 72-73 were with the Bf109 = 41
Nr.40-71 and 74-207 were with the Fw190 = 166
Nr.208-219 were with the Me262 = 12

Five others unconfirmed = 224 claims in total, 219 confirmed. I'll check if I can do something with Günther Schack.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Johannes]

Hi Michael

Have looked at Günther Schack. It's not so clear cut. Firstly he himself states 167 confirmed claims i.e the four he got in 1945 he numbers 164-167. I added it up to 171 plus two unconfirmed(which he states were confirmed). Then this leistungsbuch does not mention aircraft flown, and ends at the end of May 1945, but then lists the last six !
Moreover do we have an exact date when he began flying the Fw190 ? Using the end of 1942 as the approximate date, it would put him on 23 using the Bf109 and 148 using the Fw190, but we would have to call this 148 + or at least 148 with the Fw190, and a maximum of 23 with the Bf109.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[knusel]

Good evening Johannes,

I've asked Russ Fahey, who collects logbooks, about Lambert, but he ain't got his one.

I have the same breakdown for Rudorffer.

Based on unit equipment, I believe that Schack flew a Bf109 until Oct42 and from Apr44, thereby flying a Fw190 from Dec42 until Feb44.
I do not understand your sentence "...and ends at the end of May 1945, but then lists the last six". Does the Leistungsbuch list six kills for 1945 ?

Best wishes and greetings from Switzerland, sincerely,

Michael

[Johannes]

Hi Michael

As stated Schack's Leistungsbuch ends end May 1944, then there is a sheet of six vague entries, the first two appear to be two La-5's on the same day in December 1944, they have no times or numbers, whereas the last four all in February 1945 are numbered and times and dates given.

Thinking about it perhaps there were some later claims, but Schack was badly burned, and also a transfer to JG3, so personally I think the February ones were the last. I do believe Schack to be a honest claimer.

There is this problem for you of pilots switching aircraft type. Anton Hackl would use a Fw190 if against "viermots", but a Bf109 if he thought he was encountering fighters. But some Geschwader used only the Bf109.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[knusel]

Good evening Johannes,

apart from the two La-5's in Dec44, four claims in Feb45 and the claim on 7Apr45 have you ever heard about other Schack claims after 29Sep44 ?

Best greetings from Switzerland, sincerely,

Michael

[Johannes]

Hi Michael

The April claim might very well not be correct, just an Ernst Obermaier quote. In Günther Josten's book he mentions another La-5 in February 1945, but not directly, as the Kommandeur's. Nothing else know.

I think Josten got his first eighty-eight with the Fw190, then moves onto the Bf109, but don't know if he moved back to the Fw190 later.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[knusel]

Good afternoon Johannes,

Schack: the 'traditional' Schack total score is 174. Your research revealed 165 well-defined claims between 23Jul41 and 29Sep44. After that period there seem to be seven less-well-defined claims (two in Dec44, four Feb45 plus the Apr45 which might not be valid). What about the missing two claims ? The date for his 100th kill is sometimes given a 3Sep43 which corresponds to the 98th claim in your list. May it be that there are two additional claims in the period up to Sep43 ?

Josten: I./JG51 transitioned from Fw190A to Bf109G in Feb44. According to John Weal Josten still flew the Fw190A in March. Therefore, I think he scored his first 84 kills in the Focke-Wulf. According to Leo Etgen IV./JG51 began conversion to Fw190A on 20Mar45. Therefore, I think that Josten scored his kills 163-178 in the Fw190A and D.

Have a good weekend, sincerely,

Michael

[Johannes]

Hi Michael

The Schack "100"th 98 for my own list is because Schack has two further claims in his list on the same day that do not appear on the mikrofilms, moreover there are no anerk numbers missing.

Kind Regards

Johannes

P.S

Note then his numbering makes little sense for 1945.

[knusel]

Good evening Johannes,

the available Schack lists were a mess before you published your books.
Interestingly, the decisive kills for defining his Fw190 score were correct already then: 18./19. and 132./133.
Have you noticed that Wikipedia, which has adopted your list(s), indicates a wrong date (7Apr45) for the La-5 shot down SE of Heiligenbeil ?

I wish you a good start into the new week,

Michael

[Johannes]

Hi Guys

Have just viewed the combat report for Heinrich Sterr for 27th March 1944 this document clearly states the four claims(the last of which was v.n.e-a.s.m) were his claims numbers 95-98 could be some were never confirmed, but of interest is that he was flying a Fw190 A 6, the first two were air witnesses, the last two ground witnesses.
Another document lists total claims by pilots of JG54 until 31st December 1944, and gives Sterr 128.....as I say I think some were unconfirmed, but this is surely where his total comes from.....possibly a false total that has been accepted over the years, but just don't know.

Kind Regards

Johannes