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  #11  
Old 2nd January 2018, 16:15
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Re: Chi Chi Jima incident, Japanese War Crimes

Thank you gentlemen for all your aid and responses.

George, I also ran across the "Flyboys: A True Story of Courage" by James Bradley source in searches and referenced on some of the F-A-G memorial pages. I have already orderer a copy, very reasonably price here

https://www.amazon.com/Flyboys-Story.../dp/0316105848

Good review by Pacific Wrecks
https://www.pacificwrecks.com/reviews/flyboys.html

It will be interesting to see if Bradley details the aircraft involved as well as the crews. I have read about other incidents of Japanese cannibalism however those were of a sustenance nature at by-passed islands. This Chi Chi Jima cannibalism is my first exposure to this ritualistic form with Japanese officers eating parts of their enemy captives.
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  #12  
Old 2nd January 2018, 23:47
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Re: Chi Chi Jima incident, Japanese War Crimes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Olynyk View Post
VB-1 lost 3 SB2C-1c Helldivers in the morning mission at Chi Chi Jima. The losses are covered in VB-1 ACA-1 report #23 which does not give the aircraft BuNos. Crew losses were Hintz/Woellhof, Wright/Pryor, and Drysdale/Dalton. Two sources give further information, including BuNos. In Record Group 24, Bureau of Naval Personnel (I do not know the Entry Number), in Box 45 and 46 are four folders of losses by name, mostly covering 1944-45, but incomplete for that period. In addition, in box 46 there are four folders of aircraft losses by aircraft type and date. Both of these RG 24 sources give the BuNos, respectively 01169, 18547, and 18548 (to match the above names). Finally, Yorktown's Deck Log for July 4, 1944 lists these losses with BuNos, which agrees with the above.
Frank,

Hope you would help me understand this a little better. Can you share a document related to RG 24 sources giving the BuNos, respectively 01169, 18547, and 18548. And, as important the Yorktown's Deck Log.

Here is where some of my confusion (ignorance) begins (on this topic). The Yorktown war diary for action on 4 July 1944 starts here on fold3, 3 pages attached.

https://www.fold3.com/image/279786711

There must be some error here by me or in this record as I do not see Bombing Squadron One (VB-1) even represented here coming from the deck of Yorktown during this action. Perhaps even worse this record shows three SB2C lost (FTR) offering abbreviated BuNos #53, #48, and #64; where "maybe" #48 correlates to 18548

Was able to find an image of Ensign Owen M Hintz in the NAS Corpus Christi, TX cruise book "The Slipstream" 3 June 1943, appears to be a graduate of Battalion 3, likely trained at Cuddihy, Field. Back row 8th from the left. Always good to put faces with these MIA names when possible.

https://www.fold3.com/image/30318432...en%20M%20Hintz
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  #13  
Old 3rd January 2018, 00:06
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: Chi Chi Jima incident, Japanese War Crimes

Scott,
PM me your email address, and I will send some pages from NARA II. I have no way to post them, and no time to find out how to post them.

48, 53, and 64 are unrelated to the BuNos. They are the aircraft squadron numbers, usually assigned permanently to the aircraft for its time with the squadron. Number might change when the aircraft moved to a different squadron.

Enjoy!

Frank.
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  #14  
Old 3rd January 2018, 04:12
R Leonard R Leonard is offline
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Re: Chi Chi Jima incident, Japanese War Crimes

A war diary and a deck log are not the same thing. A war diary is a generalized description of events and movements, some maddeningly vague, others in excruciating detail as I'm sure you've discovered at Fold3. A deck log, which btw are not found in Fold3 to my knowledge, is usually a watch by watch accounting of shipboard activity signed off by the OOW at the end of each watch. In the carrier world there is a flight deck log which amongst other things is a detail of launches and recoveries. A really well maintained flight deck long includes bunos.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 05:15
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: Chi Chi Jima incident, Japanese War Crimes

To expand on what Rich has said. A deck log has two kinds of pages. Each day has one "columnar sheet", which has hourly data on the ship: average revolutions of the screws, distance travelled (by revs and by log), course, wind direction and force, barometric pressure, air temperature wet and dry bulb, water temperature at induction, weather code, clouds, visibility, ship's position (at 0800, 1200 and 2000; sometimes only 1200), fuel and water status. A lot of detail. Then several pages, initially blank, filled in by the Officers of the Deck, for each watch. These pages have two types of entries: Administrative matters, and Operational matters. Administrative matters are things like people leaving or going aboard ship, court martials (few details) and captain's mast with their results, injuries and deaths aboard ship. Operational matters are ship movements (change of course and speed) for each occurrence, drills and exercises, gun firings, aircraft launchings and landings (but usually only the number of aircraft, and times), damage, aircraft losses at the boat and sometimes in combat.

A lot of detail. Which is why the pages are about 12 by 15 inches. The deck logs for the period 1941 to 1950 are in over 10,000 boxes. Enterprise's deck log is in 11 boxes. I doubt that the deck logs will end up on Fold3, although NARA has started putting some of them online. War Diaries and submarine patrol reports are typically in Fold3.

A War Diary is an extract (ie, not all) of the operational matters in the deck log.

In addition to the above, each ship could prepare an Action Report covering a period of time in combat. This has combat details beyond those found in a deck log. There are over 1700 boxes of Action Reports.

Enjoy!

Frank.
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  #16  
Old 3rd January 2018, 20:32
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Re: Chi Chi Jima incident, Japanese War Crimes

Quote:
Originally Posted by R Leonard View Post
A war diary and a deck log are not the same thing. A war diary is a generalized description of events and movements, some maddeningly vague, others in excruciating detail as I'm sure you've discovered at Fold3. A deck log, which btw are not found in Fold3 to my knowledge, is usually a watch by watch accounting of shipboard activity signed off by the OOW at the end of each watch. In the carrier world there is a flight deck log which amongst other things is a detail of launches and recoveries. A really well maintained flight deck long includes bunos.
Thank you, Rich.
Frank has been tutoring me off forum related to CV operations and documents from this Chichi Jima attack related to Yorktown (CV-10) on 4 July 1944. I believe it is okay to share, no prohibition was noted. Understand I've cropped these pages down to just the document (likely removing document provenance) and greatly reduced them in size for posting here.

Frankly, I'm an AAF student originally. It is painfully obvious to me my USN aviation understanding has a long road ahead. To be perfectly candid my post 18 confusion related to the Yorktown War Diary I mistook the number of aircraft by type being launched i.e. Flight #2. 15 VF, 8 VT, 15 VB with "Group" identifiers such as VF-15, VT-8; feeling pretty stupid presently. Time to withdraw and study harder in silence.
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Last edited by 25Kingman49; 14th January 2018 at 00:26.
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  #17  
Old 4th January 2018, 02:47
R Leonard R Leonard is offline
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Re: Chi Chi Jima incident, Japanese War Crimes

Frank described the log much better than I did or could.

Not to worry about being AAF centric. Start talking about the AAF and my eyes start to glaze over. Mention Europe and my usual response is "there was a war in Europe?"
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  #18  
Old 4th January 2018, 23:44
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Re: Chi Chi Jima incident, Japanese War Crimes

Rich,
Thanks for the pass on me being AAF centric. It gets worse, my primary focus is the Manhattan Project (MP) weapon(s) development and delivery. Searching this forum it appears this material is not a very popular topic without digressing toward the "use" subject which is polarizing to many. Likely my contribution to this forum on that topic will be limited. Might post a test thread data / history only to judge acceptability or if it leads to the same dark alley, We'll see.

Presently am enjoying this "new" to me Navy experience related to CV with fleet and air operations; old dog new bone, life is good! The USN played a far more significant role in the MP than normally offer to the public it seems, from Los Alamos weapons design/development to Naval Construction Battalion building the operational base at Tinian. All too often overlooked because the AAF dropped the bombs.

All way off topic to this thread.

This Chichi Jima thread appears to be drawing to a close. Thanks again to all those who contributed. This was an unknown topic to me until contacted by Don Farrell on 28 Dec 2017. Interesting how some of these topics are hiding in plain sight until someone brings them up to the top of the search queue.
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  #19  
Old 5th January 2018, 04:32
R Leonard R Leonard is offline
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Re: Chi Chi Jima incident, Japanese War Crimes

Not mention Deke Parsons and, as he was forever known in US naval aviation circles, "Nagasaki Fred" Ashworth, the "weaponeers" upon whom so much depended.

For CV ops, you may wish to take a look at Clark Reynolds' The Fast Carriers as a starting point. Can't say I always agree with him and sometimes he hauls too close to the S E Morison party line, not to mention an outrageous error or two, but for the most part a reasonable treatment of the subject. Gives a good background, anyway.
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Old 5th January 2018, 05:24
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Re: Chi Chi Jima incident, Japanese War Crimes

Thank you for the book recommendation.

As to Captain Parsons and Commander Ashworth both were so much more to the project than mission weaponeers, in brief,

https://history.aip.org/phn/manhatta...tml#losalamos2

https://www.atomicheritage.org/profi...m-deak-parsons

https://www.atomicheritage.org/profi...erick-ashworth
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