Info on 103 Fairey Battle losses on the continent during mid-May, 1940

[Larry Hickey]

Paul,

Thanks for your continuing input on this. In regards to the SN of QToI, I have a photo that seems to show the numbers displayed on the starboard rudder as ending in "696." If you'll send me a PM with your personal email address, I'll send you a scan. This doesn't confirm the crash location, but it does appear to confirm the SN with this plane code.

Regards,

[paulmcmillan]

Larry

PM Sent.. BTW have extracted full text but NOT picture


Air pictorial: journal of the Air League, Volume 59

Page 40 ?? 1997 Air Pictorial

Note: Probably January of February 1997 Issue

Battle QT-D of No 142 Sqn

<Picture>

The serial Right: The Fairey Battle of No 142 Sqn mentioned by Mr Stevens

Q: I enclose a photograph of Fairey Battle QT- D of No 142 Sqn, which force landed near Boulogne at the end of May 1940. Serving as part of the Advanced Air Striking Force in France between September 1939 and June 1940, the squadron later flew Wellingtons. number is not very clear, but the last three numbers could be 692. Could you help to identify this and provide any information on its force landing, crew, etc.
J Stevens Newmarket, Suffolk

A: One of the difficulties in tracing losses of Battles in France in May and June 1940 is the loss of unit records during the evacuation of their advanced airfields. Although some survived, it is difficult to reconcile much of the information compiled after the units had returned to the UK. While some details of the operation carried out have been reconstructed by the Recording Officers, most do not show the serials of the aircraft involved. Similarly, the code letters allotted locally to aircraft are often not recorded even on the records that survived. Which aircraft of No 142 Sqn was allotted the individual letter 'D' is not known . A search of all the Battles extant at this period shows one that could apply. The 'last three' on the photograph could be '696' and apply to K7696. This Battle of No 142 Sqn was engaged with two others in attacking an enemy troop column at Conde-sur-Aisne, just east of Soissons on May 19, and failed to return. The crew, P/O H H Taylor, Sgt S Lang and LAC H Long were all later reported as prisoners-of-war. The aircraft in the photograph shows that the crew should have survived the crash and it is obviously in German hands. Where Boulogne comes into the picture is obscure as at this date
it was still in Allied hands and since all three crew were captured, if this was the aircraft involved then it could not have been crash-landed near Boulogne-sur-Mer, which is what we normally think of as simply Boulogne.
However, there is a Boulogne la Grasse about 50 km NNW of Soissons and this might be the location.

J Halley Air-Britain Information Services


Note: Photo could not have shown K7'692' as could be suggested by Mr Stevens, as this belly landed at Aston Down on 3rd December 1939 while with 12 Group Pool and became Instruction Airframe with Maintenance Serial 1782M

[Larry Hickey]

Paul,

You should now have the photos of QToI, with the probable SN of K7696. To make sure that we don't have this fouled up, however, we need to see the photo of QToD, showing a partial SN. Can anyone with a copy of "Air pictorial: journal of the Air League, Volume 59, P.40??" send me or post a scan of the photo included in that article? Or does anyone have a photo showing the SN of the QToD lost during the WC? I've got several in the EOE DB, but none show a readable SN.

Regards,

[Martin Gleeson]

Larry,

There was an article by Simon Gifford titled 'LOST BATTLES' in issue 109 of the late-lamented 'AIR ENTHUSIAST'. On page 25 there is a photo of this first 'QT-D' abandoned at Reims with the caption "Battle K9367 of 142 Squadron lies disabled at Reims".
Unfortunately the reproduction does not allow the serial number to be read. All photos in the article are credited to Simon, so if he has the original he might be able to confirm this. Perhaps someone knows him ?

Martin.

[paulmcmillan]

Originally Posted by Larry Hickey

Paul,

You should now have the photos of QToI, with the probable SN of K7696. To make sure that we don't have this fouled up, however, we need to see the photo of QToD, showing a partial SN. Can anyone with a copy of "Air pictorial: journal of the Air League, Volume 59, P.40??" send me or post a scan of the photo included in that article? Or does anyone have a photo showing the SN of the QToD lost during the WC? I've got several in the EOE DB, but none show a readable SN.

Regards,

Can confirm the picture was in Air Pictorial January 1997 issue.. But the person who confirmed this did not have the issue (he had the following issue which started at page > 40)

One just ended on ebay - No bids...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIR-PICTORIAL-...item483fe2a96d

[Larry Hickey]

Paul,

Too bad we missed the auction for the issue. I hope someone who watches this board can provide a scan of the needed photo.

Regards,

[Iain Torrance]

It is great to see so much care being taken over the plane identities.
I am very cautous on a lot of the 142 Sqn plane detail as there was an operations tent fire on 2 June. I believe that a lot of the squadrons records were lost in that fire - and a lot of log books were also destroyed.

Hence when Rudd wrote the ORB in early October it is not clear he had much detailed info. to go on.

Certainly the Hobler crash serial no was wrong (see elsewhere this forum).

Incidently one of the other 142 crashes on the day of the Taylor crash was L5226 and it is definitely QT-Q (photo confirms) and many other photos of QT-Q have the Dagny-Lambercy location.

Kind regards

Iain

[Larry Hickey]

Iain,

As you say, there are many problems due to the poor quality of the original records regarding Battle losses on the continent during 1940. However, I'm convinced that by networking with all of those knowledgable about this subject, we'll get all or most of the photos matched with actual crash incidents, and the SN and codes applied to the right a/c. We have about 100 photos of 142 SQ Battles in our EOE DB from the WC Blitzkrieg, and we're trying hard to get them all sorted out. We do carry the QToQ photos (3 of them) with the SN L5226 and the Dagny-Lambercy crash location in our DB.

I encourage anyone who can be helpful in identifying the Battles listed at the beginning of this post to add their expertise to this problem. At the EOE Working Group, we're in the process of systematically working our way through the Battle losses SQ by SQ. Then we'll do the same for the Blenheims, and other a/c.

Regards,