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  #1  
Old 27th December 2017, 14:28
Brian Brian is offline
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Stukas (? Ju88s) shot down 22/11/41???

A mystery! No record of Luftwaffe action!

Extract from a merchant navy sailor's diary during Convoy PQ3 November 1941

"November 20th. Full gale. Two ships turned back — one hit a small berg and the other had engine trouble. One of the tanks in our 'tween deck broke loose and charged into the ships side flattening the angle irons. Bosun and crew got aboard the charging monster and shored it up with bauljks of timber. (Ship was eventually awarded the OBE for this act of bravery).
November 22nd. Crossed Arctic Circle. Course for 75 N. I believe. Stukas divebombed the convoy. The flutes under the wings gave a banshee wail and every seventh shell was a tracer so when one of the gunners on the port wing Oerlikon was hit by a tracer it cauterised the wound and he survived the rough handling when the skipper ordered "that corpse off the bridge" I put him in the shelter of the wheelhouse which was re-inforced with concrete slabs) and took over the gun for a few exciting seconds. We were in the vicinity of Jan Meyen island at the extremity of the Stuka's range so it was a short lived raid. They lost two planes and the crew were dead when picked up. Temp. 40 below.
November 26th. Broke radio silence to get instructions from Admiralty to rendezvous with the Cruiser KENYA and three destroyers who depth charged the North cape to Bear Island."

Hopefully someone has an answer!

Cheers
Brian
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Old 30th December 2017, 13:13
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Re: Stukas (? Ju88s) shot down 22/11/41???

PS to the above:

Did the Stuka have sufficient range to fly to the area of Jan Mayen island, attack shipping and return to a base (Banak?) on the north Norwegian coast? Or do we think that the author of the diary, like many other seamen, referred to all attacking bombers as Stukas, and that the attacker may have been a recce Ju88?

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Brian
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Old 30th December 2017, 15:15
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Stukas (? Ju88s) shot down 22/11/41???

The Ju 88 was also a Stuka (Sturz-Kampfflugzeug) and both Ju 87 and Ju 88 Dive bombers were employed off North Norway in this period. Some Ju 88 A-5 Recce ones retained Dive Brakes but many had them removed.
No known Ju 88 losses in this area on 21., 22. and 23.
My opinion on this text be in error, as I have not found any primary reference to such an action (Your manuscript is partly covering my area of interest)

Your answer is on Wikipedia, because that day was Convoys day of arrival in Russia.
So at least the day is wrong - Convoy had passed Jan Mayen many days before.

Convoy PQ-3
was the fourth of the Arctic Convoys of World War II by which the Western Allies supplied material aid to the Soviet Union in its fight with Nazi Germany. The Convoy sailed from Hvalfjord, Iceland on 9 November 1941 and arrived at Archangelsk on 22 November 1941.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy_PQ_3
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Old 30th December 2017, 16:07
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Re: Stukas (? Ju88s) shot down 22/11/41???

Thanks Ed

My slip-up - Convoy PQ4 (not PQ3). The diary does not state which convoy or name of ship - only the date of the action)

Nevertheless, the mystery remains.

Cheers
Brian
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Old 30th December 2017, 16:20
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Stukas (? Ju88s) shot down 22/11/41???

Same answer re Ju 88´s.
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Old 1st January 2018, 13:05
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Stukas (? Ju88s) shot down 22/11/41???

Hello Brian, happy new year

Go to the forum at http://warsailors.com/forum/list.php?1 and I am sure someone will be able to identify the involved ship, and maybe give more details about this possible attack.
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Old 1st January 2018, 23:49
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Re: Stukas (? Ju88s) shot down 22/11/41???

Notwithstanding which convoy it was, as Ed says there were no losses around that span of dates. Such wild claims are commonplace-I was asked by Britain at War to identify the German bomber and 2 fighters shot down by a gunner on a merchant ship off Ireland in Nov 41. Well beyond the range of German fighters & there were no losses apart from those already credited to other causes
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Old 2nd January 2018, 19:40
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Re: Stukas (? Ju88s) shot down 22/11/41???

Hi Chris, Laurent and Ed,

I was aware that the relevant Luftwaffe records show no losses of aircraft or personnel.

I was endeavouring to establish whether Ju87s had the range to attack shipping off Jan Mayen Island, or more likely that a reconnaissance Ju88 carried out the attack, which wounded a gunner aboard the ship - which I now believe was the SS Dan-Y-Bryn.

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Brian
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Old 2nd January 2018, 21:22
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Re: Stukas (? Ju88s) shot down 22/11/41???

Brian being realistic, the Ju 87 was a tactical not strategic bomber & looking at the distances involved no
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Old 2nd January 2018, 23:12
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Stukas (? Ju88s) shot down 22/11/41???

I belive Ju 87s only were employed from North-Norway and to Murmansk area, mostly land targets. Possibly shipping too but very few are totally missing and none on dates 21, 22, 23.11 of 1941. Losses for all these were compiled by member here Björn Hafsten for their Norwegian Aviation History Society publication in about early 1990s.
Copies of these are in my boxes, and ATM out of reach. I have these also entered in my Ju 87 File (and I have triplicate copies of the original GQM records too) but none appears match this story.

I think it might be "borrowed" and re-cycled

Have you not asked this before?

So you need now go to TNA and find the Convoy Reports for this period and the maps drawn out for all combats and manouvers of the escorting ships. I saw some of these there on transparent paper back in early 1990s (Admiralty files). You do know about the large tactical maps plotted out in pen and ink ?

Ed
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