Messerschmitt rivets

[markojeras]

Can somebody please tell me what kind/size/DIN? rivets used Messerschmitt on Bf 108 and Me 109?

With best regards,

Marko

[D.B. Andrus]

I believe 7mm is the rivet diameter used by MTT.

HTH,
D.B.

[Zamex]

And what about Focke-Wulf 190 rivets?

[D.B. Andrus]

logic dictates same size for FW. Anyone?

HTH,
D.B.

[John Manrho]

D.B.

Do you mean that 7 mm rivets were used thru out a MTT a/c????. I can't imagine that. There must be more diameters used.

John.

[D.B. Andrus]

sorry, I should have stated such.

Best Regards,
D.B.

[George Hopp]

For a reference on the diameter of German rivets vs. Western Allied rivets, try OKL Sonderbericht Nr. 39 of 15 Jan 45, entitled "Maßnahmen zur Kleinhaltung des Tragflügelwiderstandes im gegnerischen Flugzeugbau" which compared the resistance of Allied and German wings, and gave reasons why the resistance of German wings was greater. One reason given was that the German rivets had a greater diameter, 7mm vs. 4mm for the Allies. This required greater force to spread the rivet heads, and caused bowing of the skinning panels, and bending of ribs, etc.

The a/c specifically mentioned were the 109, 262, and 335 vs. the Spitfire, Mustang, and Tempest.

[judyc]

Hi guys;

Most of the rivets for the fuselage and wing, for both the 109 and the 190, including the Dora were 7mm with some 9mm and on high stress areas, such as the wing root which is heavily riveted on the Fw 190, the sizes were 10 and 13mm.
I went over the Dora 13 recently during the restoration and painting process and measured the rivets. They are very consistent as stated above.
HTH
Cheers,
Jerry

[George Hopp]

Hi, Jerry and Judy, good to hear from you.

To check the rivet head sizes I went down to the Air Museum this morning and checked over the 109F and the Spitfire IX beside it. The problem with the 109F, of course, is that it has been restored, and so re-riveted. On one fuselage segment, I saw a line of 9mm rivets partially covered by filler, and beside it a nice line of 6mm rivets. Inboard on the wing, I got, close to the spar, heads between 8mm and 10mm; outboard I got mainly lines of 7mm heads. On the rear half of the wing I got lines of 8-9mm; but in many places, also lines of 6mm heads. On the lower cowling, 6mm; on the fin, 6.5mm; and on the horizontal stabilizer, 7mm. Under and behind the cockpit, 8mm; top of the wing radiator upper flap, 8mm; and on the top flap surface, 8.5mm. Olong the upper fuselage there were 8mm rivets along one stringer but 6mm ones along another.

On the Spitfire IX, the rivets were much more uniform. On the wing leading edge they were 8.5mm, but in all other areas they were about 5-6mm.

This pretty well agrees with the 1945 report.

[ThomasA]

This thread makes me confused. Are you talking about the rivet head diameter here? Or the diameter of the rivet shaft? It is the shaft diameter which is the designated rivet diameter.

For clarity in technical terms:
The rivet diameter is the diameter of the rivet shaft. Reason: It is this part of the rivet which is the actual load carrying part. The rivet head and the crushed end is "just" holding the panels together. Also the visible countersunk rivet head can be machined after assembly in order to have an absolutely smoth surface in which case the visible rivet head diameter is changed. This does not apply to round headed rivets of course. Anohter problem is that there is something called oversized rivets. These are rivets which are slightly larger (~0,2-0,3mm) than nominal size rivets. They are used when you repair the structure and have to drill out old rivets. When a rivet is drilled out the hole normally becomes a little larger and therefore a slightly larger rivet is used.

I would guess that what you call 7mm rivets is actually 3,5mm rivets and 8,5mm is 5mm.

/Thomas Adamsson